It gets better, the NLS have started putting up a mosaic of the post-war aerial photographs.  Just hope they continue to add to the coverage!

http://geo.nls.uk/air-photos/

Although the resolution doesn't let me see any detail, for one I've got lucky with one of these offerings, and it shows my house in the old days when I used to live in the country, and the rear of my house looked over open fields.

Unfortunately, I now live in the outskirts of the city, surrounded by roads and houses on all sides - and I didn't even have to go to the bother of moving!

I may have been too busy looking at the content/layout on ScotlandsPlaces when it first appeared, or they read comments in here ;D, but last night I noticed that the menu/navigation bottom item is a Beta/Feedback option, where site users can pass comments and suggestion for the developers to work on ;)

Have a loook at Castle Toward with loads of huts.  Toward battery is obscured by cloud - drat.

Pity you cannot print them off - they are easier to examine witha lens that way.

They do not appear to be WWII - there is too much missing eg. the Cloch Dunoon Boom and the Tower Hill HAA Battery seems to be demolished too.   The Coastal Battery at Cloch is very overgrown.  If they are 1940s they must be very late 40s!

Quoted from The Fox

Have a loook at Castle Toward with loads of huts.  Toward battery is obscured by cloud - drat.

Pity you cannot print them off - they are easier to examine witha lens that way.

They do not appear to be WWII - there is too much missing eg. the Cloch Dunoon Boom and the Tower Hill HAA Battery seems to be demolished too.   The Coastal Battery at Cloch is very overgrown.  If they are 1940s they must be very late 40s!

Most of the aerials are usually 1946 onwards because a complete survey was done of the country.  You get some earlier ones that were usually taken to check camouflage.

I can't see the tanks at Montfode and some other things that I would have expected to see on post-war pictures, I wonder if some are pre-war?

The camp and base at Corpach show up well.  The Kilvenie HAA is clear but Caol under cloud.  I am trying to work out if there are some huts at Inverlochy Castle, the Poles were there so I would have not expected them to all fit in the main building.  A few other groups of huts around but it is confused by the BA having soem temporary buildings, there is camp which I thought might be military but I have been told it was the BA "base camp" though I do wonder if someone like the Home Guard might have used it because there are two Spigot Mortar bases and some trenches near there.

It is a bit hit and miss, with the full sets of pictures you often one very dark then another will be fine.


MB

Correction the building for filling fuel cans at Monfode is there with siding but I don't see the small tanks the other side of the track from there or the large tanks etc.  So are these post-war?

Very odd the tanks are very clear on a RCAHMS aerial, is the NLS picture an early WWII one?

MB

I agree on the lack of known military features being evident, but bear in mind much was swept away fairly quickly for re-use by civilians, as the immediate end of the war saw a country blighted by material shortages. If it wasn't bolted down, it was "liberated".

I think there may be a degree of interpretation with the reference to 1940s, even though the key to the right of the map specifically states 1944 - 1950.

This survey would have taken years to complete, even with wartime images available, as everything was done manually, even the mechanised film-processing, unless it was able to use ex-military systems, were still slow compared to the speed with which we can handle vast amounts of imagery today.

If you really want to nail down a date, use the roads and other survey maps, which can be found with various dates.

I suspect that this may show some of the imagery collected is somewhat earlier than stated, and it may be that prewar imagery got bundled in with the rest, either by accident, or to supplement it, if say a spot was missed or badly exposed perhaps.

I put a comment in the feedback that they should have the details on the Scotlansplaces site - they are on the main page but not displayed when you select an image.

Their pictures show the main tanks under construction in 1942 then complete in 1943.

Perhaps the NLS ones are earlier than then, either that or the site is VERY well camouflaged.

The majority of the survey was done 1946/1947/1948 with some a bit later.  All the prints have the date written on them with the reference numbers.

Usually there is enough left of WWII sites to show, the Y Service site at Kilmore seems to have been cleared but you can clearly see the footprint of the masts.

Trouble is that you see a few regular shaped structures in a straight line and you convince yourself it must be a row of Nissen huts though it often is.  

MB

It's a while since I looked at or used these historical maps from NLS, mainly because the system was so slow and clunky - patience gave out after a while - but since I was last on the page, it seems they've updated to a much snappier Google Maps application, and it can now be panned and zoomed as a transparent view over the present day imagery, and without losing the will to live if you find you want to look at a lot:-

Historical Map Overlays - National Library of Scotland

I am not sure what to make of the NLS aerial pics, so much seems to be missing.  Once again a site is covered with cloud - East Yonderton HAA Battery.   The camp at Bridge of Weir is clear and much larger than I thought.  Foxbar - there is some evidence of the fire decoy but not the HAA Battery although it looks as if the hut base is related to the former site.

Is it my imagination or are the mapping squares multiplying quite fast?

Why have they chosen certain squares which appear to have nothing of interest in them?

Having examined Houston and Toward again, I have come to the conclusion that both pics were taken to check the effectiveness of smoke screens.  Both sites are obscured by the only cloud in the whole frame and it effectively covers the area of the sites.
The website seems quite flimsy, it has crashed on me three times.

Having examined Houston and Toward again, I have come to the conclusion that both pics were taken to check the cloaking of the sites by smokescreens.  They are both covered by the only clouds in the frame and they pretty effectively cover the area of the sites.

The website seems quite flimsy - it has crashed on me three times.

Due to work commitments I have not had time to have a look at the site and after a few seconds i viewed a map of the Greenock merino mills.Contained within the map is the layout of the air raid shelters which are described as such however if my memory serves me correctly the map does not reflect what was actually built on the site and there is no schematic representation of the underground structures which went down about three storeys.Interesting.

Keep an eye on the legend in the top left corner of the map.

The background map over which the photo-mosaic is overlaid is drawn from different years and can vary with the zoom level, so you can flip from the 1840s to the 1930s if not paying attention to this one.

Yes I have noticeed this but it should not affect the superimposed aerial imagery should it?

Given that the Larkfield accomodation camp is there but the battery area is a few smudges, ditto Tower Hill, I am wondering if we have made a discovery here.   Did they cover the batteries with cammo nets?   I have never heard this being suggested.

I did specify background map ;)

I've been watching the photo dates in the same line, but have not observed any changes there (yet? ).

I can't point to any of the other records, but I'm sure I've seen mention of camouflage, although it might have been for LAA rather than HAA.

There would be little point in camouflaging most HAA sites, as they could have had the huge radar mats beside them, and many also had significantly large camps nearby, which would have needed the same treatment, but their regular appearance, laid out in rows, would have made the job harder.

We only see the faint evidence now, but looking at the photos of their constructions suggest they would have stuck out like sore thumbs in many cases, due to the roads and traffic, and that would be even harder to hide from sight from the air, rather than just the site itself.

And the Z-Batteries were even more noticeable with their greater area and regular grid layout.

These NLS aerial pics get stranger the more you look at them.   Abbotsinch airfield isn't there but the building with the W baffle wall, the small bridge and another building  and some earthworks are!

An exact date for each mosaic panel would be nice :)

I wonder if they would respond to a request?

Looking at the four squares covering Fort William, they are not the same images as the ones that I have but there are several runs covering the area.  I have a really crisp image of the HAA in Caol but the NLS one has cloud over it.  I think they are the post-war series.

But Montfode images appear to be around 1940 / 1941 before the construction of the tanks.  I similarly get the feeling that the ones around Greenock might be early in WWII but I don't know the area well enough to be sure.

Inverness has the RAF fuel tanks clearly visible, the wartime hospital at Raigmore is also clear.  I don't know if the bunkers are there as too much tree cover.  i think Doonies Hill CHL might be visible though tower/gantry probably gone which would suggest post-war.

MB

Quoted from Apollo

An exact date for each mosaic panel would be nice :)

I wonder if they would respond to a request?

I was meaning to suggest that to them!

MB

jmb - re the cloud over the site at Caol, is it the only cloud in the square?   I am more and more sure they are smoke screens.  

Re the Gourock pics, the camp, part of RAF Greenock, that existed at thhe top of the Darroch Park covers a huge area, larger than I thought it did and it was not built until after RAF Greenock was opened. Originally the staff were accomodated in a social club - I rather suspect the Torpedo Factory Club  at Cardwell Bay.  The accomodation camp at Larkfield is also completed whereas the battery is virtually invisible although there is something quite large against the western boundary of the field and outside the battery boundary.

  

Quoted from The Fox

jmb - re the cloud over the site at Caol, is it the only cloud in the square?   I am more and more sure they are smoke screens.  

Re the Gourock pics, the camp, part of RAF Greenock, that existed at thhe top of the Darroch Park covers a huge area, larger than I thought it did and it was not built until after RAF Greenock was opened. Originally the staff were accomodated in a social club - I rather suspect the Torpedo Factory Club  at Cardwell Bay.  The accomodation camp at Larkfield is also completed whereas the battery is virtually invisible although there is something quite large against the western boundary of the field and outside the battery boundary.

  

If they were going to have a smoke screen then it would be over the BA, some locals have suggested there was one there.  I don't think it would be over one of the HAA sites as it would make it more difficult to aim as there is no sign later of a radar platform.

Cloud is not unknown in the Fort William area - 1.6" rain today by 1600h!   :)

MB

Would anyone hazard a guess at why the air raid shelters in nthe Merino Mill Map were highlighted with a different Hue to the rest of the map. :-/

There's a worthwhile "fix" buried in the Help for the NLS maps, and which restores the NGR coordinates to the browser status bar.

I noticed these disappeared some time ago, but had (wrongly) assumed that the relevant writers had merely dropped the feature, but it seems now that the cause was a switch in the browsers.

The following instruction restores the figures, which can be handy for cross-referring items, or just finding the the numbers without having to fire up another application:

Quoted Text

The National Grid coordinates should display in the Status Bar at the base of the screen.
If they are not visible, then you need to ensure the Status Bar (under the View menu) is checked.
Then in Mozilla Firefox:

   1. type about:config in address bar
   2. set the dom.disable_window_status_change preference to false

for Internet Explorer 7:

   1. Open Internet Explorer, click the Tools button, click Internet Options, and then click the Security tab.
   2. Click Internet or Restricted sites, and then click the Custom level button.
   3. Scroll down to Allow status bar updates via script, select Enable.
   4. Click OK until you return to Internet Explorer.

The sheet covering Montfode is 1950.

NS 24 S.W. (Ayrshire)      1950       1951

The tanks must be well buried, I get the feeling that you can see a hint of the five smaller tanks near the railway.  The office(?) on the track up to the large tanks are there but the large tanks are off the edge unfortunately.  I think you can see the bund for the large tanks also.

How did you manage to find that out?

I was looking at Bute and came across an accomodation camp at (:mlat:55.8336502:)(:mlon:-5.0446987:)(:mngr6:NS094642:), now a caravan site.

Tantalisingly there is an area of cloud/ smoke nearby with what looks like a gun emplacement in the NE corner.   We don't seem to know about this, whatever it is.

Quoted from The Fox

How did you manage to find that out?

I was looking at Bute and came across an accomodation camp at (:mlat:55.8336502:)(:mlon:-5.0446987:)(:mngr6:NS094642:), now a caravan site.

Tantalisingly there is an area of cloud/ smoke nearby with what looks like a gun emplacement in the NE corner.   We don't seem to know about this, whatever it is.

If you got to the aerial photo home page, there is a link for map sheet list.  That has a list of the sheets.

It can be frustrating, I can't see the runways at Prestwick just the camp to the North West.  The camp at Dundonald shows up very well.  Often the place you want to see if just off the coverage!

I was looking at Largs to see if there was any sort of camp for all the administrative staff there but they must have used the hotels in the town.  Were there some huts on the sea front just North of the present Calmac pier?  I get the impression there around the present day car park.

MB

Thanks!

Mind you this makes even less sense.  NS 46 N.E. (Renfrewshire), which is the area of the present Glasgow Airport, formerly Abbotsinch shows the area is covered with fields when we know, or at least think we know that the airfield was there during WWII and should have  been there in 1950 when it is claimed the pic was taken.  What is going on here?

Quoted from The Fox

Thanks!

Mind you this makes even less sense.  NS 46 N.E. (Renfrewshire), which is the area of the present Glasgow Airport, formerly Abbotsinch shows the area is covered with fields when we know, or at least think we know that the airfield was there during WWII and should have  been there in 1950 when it is claimed the pic was taken.  What is going on here?

Prestwick is the same either extremely good camouflage (which seems unlikely five years after the end of WWII) or something very strange with the dates.

Wasn't Abbotsinch a pre-war airfield so a few buildings should be visible even if the photos are pre-war though it would have been a grass strip.

MB

The NLS maps are a bit of a shambles.   At least two of the Gourock/Greenock maps are entitled Dumbartonshire!   I hope greenock doesn't read this - he will be mortified!

For those who haven't found it and I am sure most of you have, the explanation for the mysterious clouds and missing airfields etc. is on the Home page under Additional information.

Basically it was basically censorship of still active sites.   There is an example of Prestwick original pic with airfield and the doctored version with just fields.  Today with many photomanipulation programs and cut and paste this would be relatively but in the 1950s when cut and paste involved scissors and a jar of Gloy this must have been a nightmare.  That is before you lay out the fields from some pre airfield map and make them look authentic.   The clouds must have been a doddle compared to that and I suppose the smudging out even easier.

Er...

I hate to point out the obvious, but:

PoW Camp Summary WW II

Sincere apologies for the confusion within the post in relation to merino mill in greenock. I referred to the map in the Scotlands places site as opposed to the mosaic site.Two great sites however the greenock 1946 photos will probably take up until Xmas to decipher the blurred detail contained within.but anyone with the time would be welcome to look at the map to see the red tinged detail of the "Shelters " next to the Merino Mill.Any eagle eyed takers out there. :)

:)

The following page mentions an instance of the PoW labour, and has a link to a more detailed story:

Secret Scotland - Blairvadach Working Camp

Quoted from Captain Brittles

It looks like visiting Edinburgh may be the cheapest and best way of obtaining high res hard copies. Hellishly dear doing it remotely.

Your local Record Office / Archive / Planning Dept / ??? should have copies for the area though it might not be complete.

i went up to Inverness the other week to look at some, just been burning some DVDs with hopefully some of the ones that they are missing.

Quoted from Captain Brittles

I don't see how considering they come from RCHAMS. A digital copy @ £10 a pop seems a bit dear but then RCHAMS are known to charge premium prices.

Not sure what you mean?

The RCAHMS passed on copies to each area of Scotland, it varies who holds them.

Quoted from Captain Brittles

Canny see that anywhere on their website JM. What I see on the RCHAMS site is prices for the images from them.

Contact your local archive and ask if they have copies of the aerial photographs, if not then ask who holds them.  There can be problems taking copies, it varies from area to area.  I just took photographs off the screen but Argyll made up a CD for me.

A local organisation were give a pile of the prints which they let me have a look at so I scanned them all and returned the prints with copies on DVDs as well as passing DVDs onto the local archive.  Some of the ones missing in Inverness were in the ones I have so giving them scans to fill in a few gaps.

You would not want to buy copies of the set on NLS - there is too much airbrushed out.   You might however want to purchase some of the RAF Photo Reconnaisance Unit's pics held by RCAHMS.   These are extremely detailed.