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Apollo
July 19, 2010, 1:03am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Spooky coincidence time...

After mentioning the pics added for the Spillers factory in Barrhead, and noting it was somewhere I had spent some tine in, almost the next day we have:

Port Dundas Distillery

And it gets mentioned because it was a whisky plant I didn't do any work in

Although it was a place I must have driven past countless times - and thoroughly enjoyed that certain distillery smell that surrounded the area - I never turned off and drove up the road to the plant, and my boss at the time failed miserably in even getting is a look, never mind any work.

Since I was never even at the gate, let alone inside it, I had no idea what it was like inside... until now.

Going the same way as the rest of Scottish industry, it seems we aren't even able to keep a whisky plant running in Scotland, and the closure announcement came in July 2009, but this isn't a surprise, since the Black & White bottling plant on Cumbernauld Road keeled over many moons ago, and it was making so much money at one stage, when the main money earning line broke down and the losses started to mount up, the plant manager told me to go and charter a private plane if it meant bringing the line back on stream quicker.

It wasn't a bribe with a free holiday for yours truly, but frustration as the line was built using a fusion of English, German, and Italian machinery, and we had to get all three builders together as the documentation was written in all three languages!

(I was told, unofficially, that the whisky from that line was being sold for £80 per bottle, and the line was supposed to run during three 8-hour shifts, producing 140 bottles per minute - they wanted 160, but at that speed, the machinery actually started to fly apart after a few minutes.)

As they say, you could not write some stories as fiction, and expect to be believed.
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BenCooper
July 19, 2010, 9:25am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Enigma
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What amazed me was how skanky it was - smellier and grubbier than most power stations I've been in!
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Apollo
July 19, 2010, 3:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Would probably have been 'better' after another year or two, to allow all the perishable remains to decay and disperse naturally.

I've spent a lot of time in plants similar to this, and the amount of cleaning that goes on is impressive, and must be a significant cost.

However, when we used to have the (Glasgow) Fair shutdown for two weeks, it was noticeable how the smell in these places changed from production to shutdown conditions, and the cleaning staff were out of the place until shortly before the restart, to clean up behind the maintenance crews, and get the places neat and tidy for the return of the workers.

The worst we ever came across was the 'Smell of Death' from meat packager Scotbeef. Thankfully we never actually had to visit the site - I think anyone asked would have refused anyway - but when we got two circuit modules delivered for repair, removed from one of the production line controllers, we almost had to have our own building fumigated such was the strength of the smell attached to the modules.

I am perfectly serious when I say that you could not hold one of the circuit boards close enough to look at without gagging, and some of the more delicate female staff even had to outside for fresh air just after they were delivered - and their office was two doors along from the workshop!

We had to leave the cards outside, otherwise the stench filled all our rooms after a while.
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Apollo
July 20, 2010, 11:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thinking back on this, it occurred to me that all the whisky related work I was involved with took place in bottling plants, and these are extremely clean places, if for no other reason that everything is regularly washed down with whisky and gin - whenever a bottle breaks.

While this is not the best use for our 'National drink', it does mean the aroma is 'pleasing'

I once had a bottle burst over my toolcase while at work - unfortunately not fit for human consumption after it was poured out, it still removed most of the scale marking from my multimeter! Must be good for keeping the 'tubes' clean.

Anyway, it just struck me that if Port Dundas was taken out of production, and the various vessels used to start the process were not cleaned, the remaining material would continue to ferment, and if it behaves anything like home-brew or wine-making that is forgotten or neglected, then I can imagine the smell becoming something that would 'catch' the nose.

The (malted) barley is heated with water to break down the starch and produce the sugary wort, and this is followed by the addition of yeast and fermentation to produce the alcohol, referred to as the wash.

I tried making cider from my own apples a few years ago (I don't know what I ended up with, but at least it didn't appear to poison anybody ). The fermentation period was carried out outside, near a boiler, and that was fortunate, as the whiff was so bad sometimes, that when the time came to taste it, it was a toss-up between tasting it, and just pouring it straight down the drain!

Tasting won - and the only reason it wasn't finished was because it went flat before the barrel was empty, and there was just too much void to keep the gas in it
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JadeFalcon
July 21, 2010, 12:56am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Enigma
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Quoted from Apollo
Anyway, it just struck me that if Port Dundas was taken out of production, and the various vessels used to start the process were not cleaned, the remaining material would continue to ferment, and if it behaves anything like home-brew or wine-making that is forgotten or neglected, then I can imagine the smell becoming something that would 'catch' the nose.


Well I've heard of passive smoking, could this perhaps be passive drinking?  
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BenCooper
July 21, 2010, 7:58am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Enigma
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The smell in the dark grains plant was certainly quite yeasty, but in the distilling plant it was definitely pigeon. One other thing that was a bit grotty was that, above each still, was a flykiller - there were loads of little flies buzzing about and a continuous crackling from the flykillers, with a big pile of crispy fly on top of the still...
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Apollo
July 21, 2010, 8:18am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Oh dear...

Dead flies!

I have just watched a documentary episode about the Desert War.

During this, the soldiers were plagued by various problems such as lack of water and dysentery, but one of their worst memories was of the flies, which arrived en masse due to the dead bodies littering the desert.

They described the smell of the dead flies as being worse than the problem of the flies themselves, which they would run competitions to see who could kill the most.

However, the resulting smell from the piles of dead flies came to be so bad that an order was issued forbidding them from killing the flies.
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cell
July 22, 2010, 11:44am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Illusion
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Can anyone confirm if they generated electricity there? I suspect they did but I've been trying to get details for a while about this site with no joy. In one of Ben's photos there is a Ruston skid which looks like a gas turbine and generator? Any info on the plant and capacity would be great.
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WANLOCK
July 22, 2010, 12:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Enigma
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Location: Busan, Republic of Korea
May be a standby generator in case main power supply fails.  
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BenCooper
July 22, 2010, 9:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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A couple of doors, which led to the turbine rooms, said CHP on them - so I'd assume they at least have the capacity to generate electricity - though with a big substation right next door I'd assume they're only for backup purposes.

Pinkston power station was across the road, where the motorbike showroom is now. Port Dundas electricity generating station was right across the canal from Spiers Wharf, reaching down to Garscube Road.

By the way, if it's any use, I've mapped over 1,000 places in Hume's Industrial Archaeology of Glasgow in Google Earth:



The file can be downloaded from the Maps tab of my website - http://www.transientplaces.co.uk
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Apollo
July 22, 2010, 10:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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(I've deleted my previous post. I couldn't fathom the various sites relative to one another earlier, from the plain table entries I was looking at, and it was just confusing )

CHP would have been running continuously to provide process heat, so they would consequently have been generating their own power, and presumably cheaper than buying it from the grid, which would probably why they went to expense.

I found the details for the distillery generator:

Attributed to United Distillers Diageo, generation began in 1986, was rated at 6.3 MW, and we obviously know when it ended.

I also identified the locations of the old power stations nearby.

Pinkston power station was located to the southeast, across the canal, where the basin is now located. This was constructed by Glasgow Corporation Electricity Department, and was built to generate electricity for the Glasgow Corporation Tramways network. There appears to have been a refit, and it was demolished in 1960. There's quite a list of generators (so I'm not listing).

Site Record for Glasgow, North Canal Bank Street, Pinkston Power Station Port Dundas; Tramway Power Station Details

There was also a Port Dundas power station, located to the east of the distillery, across the canal, and on Edington Street.

Originally rated at 36 MW and ran from 1899 to 1922.

Later rated at 23 MW and ran from 1928 to 1932.

Site Record for Glasgow, Edington Street, Port Dundas Power Station Corn Street; Generating Station Details
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cell
July 23, 2010, 12:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Illusion
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Thanks guys, liked the Hume download, good information on the distillery site, confirmed CHP site but it raises a number of questions

Ben you say there were turbines, how many? were these steam or gas?, was the Ruston sets one of these? What was the name plate capcity!!

That is one big chimney for a gas turbine, I'd thought that it would be related to some oil or coal fired boilers, did you see any boilers in there? Or it might have been that tall to disperse the normal distillery smells!

I've always assumed the substation location was a historic one related to Pinkston and Port Dundas stations. Port Dundas along with St Andrews (Pollokshaws Rd) were built to supply the city with power around the turn of the century, and both would have feed the city grid locally with power, when Dalmarnock was built to replace them both, power would still have to be brought to the old power station connection points unless they were prepared to do some hefty rewiring hence the pylons and substation, I could be wrong of course.

Pinkston was originally built to supply the tramway with power, only very late in its life was it taken over by the SSEB and its output fed into the grid although there were interconnectors installed as early as 1907, I suppose the substation could also accommodated this?

If anyone is interested here is a potted history of Pinkston:-

The Pinkston station timeline below was compiled using info from Ian Semple’s website, which I believe originally came from the “The Tramway and Railway World” magazine 1901 and 1903. I’ve also used the “Scottish Electrical Engineer” a periodical from the Mitchell, the Glasgow Corporation Transport booklet “Pinkston Power Station Official Inspection 1938” which I’ve got a copy of and another booklet from the Mitchell titled “Glasgow Corporation Transport Department 1894-1954, Recording the occasion of the visit of the Rt Hon Thomas Johnston to Pinkston Power Station 03/12/54”. Tom Johnston, was a remarkable individual who helped set up and chaired the North of Scotland Hydro Board and played a pivotal role in developing hydro electric power in Scotland and bringing electricity to many areas of Scotland for the 1st time.

1901 10MW 4x2.5MW engines (10.8MW SE) 16 B&W boilers, 4x4000(5000max)hp (2xEP Allis, Milwaukee & 2xMusgrove, Bolton) Engines 4x2500kw BTH alternators output was 6.6kV AC.
Also 2x800(max1000)hp vertical cross compond steam engines by Duncan Stewart and Company, Limited, Glasgow driving 2x 600kw BTH generators (500VDC) for auxiliary power. 6x85ihp exciter engines by W. H. Allen and Company, Bedford.
1907 Interconnectors between Pinkston & Port Dundas installed and in use until 1930 when GCED adopted 50Hrz
1907 13MW, 3MW 1st TA set installed Richardsons Westgarth & Co Ltd turbine Brown Boveri alternator
1909 13MW, 6 B&W boilers added each 25klbs/hr
1911 18MW, 5MW 2nd TA set added Richardsons Westgarth & Co Ltd turbine Brown Boveri alternator
1914 23MW, 5MW 3rd TA set added British Thomson Houston Co Ltd, one engine replaced
1923 ?MW , 10MW 4th TA set added British Thomson Houston Co Ltd, one engine replaced
1923 26Mw 1938 booklet (20MW of turbines plus 2 old engines?)
1928 The station was reconstructed in 1928, with new John Thompson boilers (50klbs/hr @315psi 700F), the 1914 5MW & 1923 10MW sets were reconditioned to 7.5MW & 15MW. The remaining two 1901 engines could have been removed then. There is no evidence of any 2.5Mw engines in 1938 plan but there are some inconsistencies, there is 1x3 & 2x5MW when one of the 5 and the 10 should have been upgraded to 7.5 & 15MW by then.
1931 10 MW 5th TA set added Metropolitan Vickers Electrical Co Ltd, took the place of an engine
1938 25 MW 6th TA set added Metropolitan Vickers Electrical Co Ltd, took the place of an engine
1938 57.5MW 4 TA sets 1x7.5 1914(192, 1x15 1923(192, 1x10 (1931) & 1x25 (193.
1946 Application made to the Electricity Commissioners (1945 unsuccessful) to install more capacity, this was approved provided the set would generate at 50Hrz and the other plant should conform, allowing the station to operate in conjunction with the BEA for mutual benefit. This set was installed in 1954 and was a Metropolitan Vickers 30MW 6.6kv 3 ph 50hrz with 2 John Thompson La Mont type forced circulation boilers (150klbs/hr @600psi 850F), James Howden fans and boiler feed pumps. The cooling tower was added at this time.
1954 65Mw 1x10, 1x 25, 1x 30Mw The 1914 7.5MW unit and possibly any earlier units were probably removed for installation of 1954
1958 Handed over to SSEB 31st Oct
1965 65Mw 1x10, 1x 25, 1x 30Mw ESB
1966 49MW 1x10, 1x 25, 1x 30Mw The station was converted to oil firing and the 4x50klb/hr boilers were scrapped reducing total generating capacity to 49MW although 65MW of turbines still in place ESB
1970 48MW 1x30, 1x10, 1x25Mw ESB
1974 48Mw 1x30, 1x10, 1x25Mw ESB
Closed?
Demolished?

The outside of the station itself appears to have changed little over time with the exception of the cooling tower addition in 1954. If you look on Google maps you can just make out the feint indication of the tower base on the small island beside the where the station

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cell
July 23, 2010, 12:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Illusion
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Just incase you want to know more! and in particular details of Port Dundas and St Andrews stations, detailed below is an extract from the 1904 Handbook on the Municipal Enterprises publish by the Corporation of the City of Glasgow book which is the best description I’ve come across regarding the early supply of electricity in Glasgow. Apologies for the verbatim reprint but I think it’s worthwhile having the original text

The new Port-Dundas and Pollokshaws Road Works will be found worthy of a visit. There former contains engines and dynamos of both American and British manufacture, and of both high-speed and low-speed types, and in various sizes from 200 h.p. to 2,400h.p. each unit. The largest engines were built by Messrs. Willans & Robinson, and the dynamos by the Westinghouse Company. The remaining engines are by the Ball and Wood Company, Messrs. Matthew Paul, Messrs. Mirrless & Watson, Messrs. Belliss & Morcom, and Messrs. Willans & Robinson, and the dynamos by the Walker Company, the Schuckert Company, Crompton & Co., and the British Thomson-Houston Company. The condensing plant is all driven by electric motors, the air pumps being of Edwards’ patens design. The switchboards and recording gauges are of considerable interest, being specially designed for the purpose, and containing some departures from ordinary practice. They have been constructed by Kelvin & James White, the Holland House Manufacturing Company, Messrs. Mechan & Sons, and Messrs. Laing, Wharton & Down. They are mostly, therefore of local production.

The total cost of the electricity works of the Corporation, including mains, up to 31st May, 1904, has been approximately £1,150,000. This expenditure does not, of course, include the cost of the Corporation tramways electrical system, which is an entirely separate undertaking.

Large extensions are now in progress at Port-Dundas, where a second third of the whole design for the buildings is being erected. This will complete the northern end of the generating station, and will contain another chimney some 230 feet in height. After the most careful investigation, it has been decided to put in two steam turbines of 3,000 kilowatts capacity each, and orders have accordingly been placed for those turbines with Messrs. Willans & Robinson, of Rugby, while the alternators, which will be of the three-phase type, working at 6,500 volts, and at a periodicity of 25 cycles per second, are being constructed by Messrs. private, Kerr & Co. at Preston. The surface-condensing plant, which is a very important matter with steam turbines, will be immediately below them, so as to make the connections as short as possible, and is being constructed by Messrs. W.H. Allen, Son & Co., of Bedford. The switchboard for the control and measurement of high-tension currents is a very extensive affair, as experience has shown the necessity for the utmost care in designing and constructing this part of the electrical equipment. The order for this portion of the work has been placed with Messrs. Witting, Eborall, & Co. The boilers for this extension are to be, like those already in use, if the Babcock Company’s make, but of the largest size yet constructed, having a grate area of 100 square feet and a heating surface of 6,182 square feet each, the working steam pressure being 200 lbs. per square inch, and each boiler being fitted with superheaters to give about 200 degrees of super heat. Space is provided for economisers, which will be put in in due course.

The high-tension current generated by the new turbo alternators will be taken to various sub-stations in the city, but principally at present to the sub-station in Waterloo Street, which is the original generating station, from which, however, all the steam and generating plant has now been removed. Motor generators, which are being supplied by the Electrical Company, will be placed in these sub-stations by means of which the high-tension three-phase current will be converted into continuous 500-volt current on the three-wire system supplied at 250 volts on each side. It is not necessary in the present circumstances of demand to utilise these sub-stations, except in the dark winter months, and then only on the afternoon shifts, to meet the excessive peak load in the city.
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cell
July 23, 2010, 12:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Part 2
As regards St. Andrew’s Cross Electricity Works, there is no need to extend the buildings, as they were practically completed in the first instance, but preparations are now being made to put in a steam turbine of 1,400 kilowatts capacity, which also is being constructed by Messrs. Willans & Robinson. The turbine will drive two continuous-current dynamos, giving a pressure of 500 to 600 volts each, which are being constructed by Messrs. Siemens Brothers & Co. at Stafford. The boilers in this generating station will also be of the Babcock & Wilcox type, exactly like those already installed. They will each have a grate area of 76 square feet and a heating surface of 4,020 square feet, the steam pressure being 200lbs per square inch, and the superheaters being constructed to give 200 degrees of superheat. The new boilers, however, will be erected with the special arrangement of boiler setting designed by Mr H. W. Miller, of the Kensington and Knightsbridge Electric Lighting Company, Limited, in London. One boiler has already been erected with this arrangement of setting, and has proved most satisfactory in economical performance, in output, and in smokeless combustion. This one boiler may be seen at work on paying a visit to this station.

There being no canal or river from which water can be circulated for condensing purposes, it has been necessary to order cooling towers to be placed in the tanks over the boiler house, by means of which the water from the condensers connected with the turbine and the engines will be cooled. The order for one of these towers has been placed with Messrs. Richardsons, Westgarth & Co, of Hartlepool, this being of the Koppel type, and two smaller ones have been ordered from Messrs. Klein & Co, of Manchester.

Up to the present time the supply and distribution of electricity throughout the city has been carried on practically by means of low-tension 500 volt continuous current throughout, with feeders radiating from the two separate stations. Last winter a departure was commenced upon by converting the old Waterloo Street Generating Station into a sub-station, and taking a temporary supply of high-tension current from the surplus plant of the Tramways Department, which is situated at Pinkston. Low-tension feeders are now also run from the Waterloo Street Sub-station, and it is intended before the coming winter to erect a similar sub-station on part of the Dalmarnock Gas-works, which are being superseded by the new gas-works at Provan. Low-tension feeders will also be laid from this sub-station for the supply of lighting and power in the east end of Glasgow.

Fully half the capital expenditure of the undertaking is, as is usually the case, for mains, though these are seldom given the attention which their great importance deserves. All the low-tension mains which have been laid by the Electricity Department in the city for some time past are of the triple-concentric type, some of them with lead sheathing, but all of them during the last two years or so with vulcanised bitumen sheathing. They are laid in wood troughs of ample size, and run in solid with pitch and asphalte oil. Large manholes, measuring some 6 square feet and 6 feet deep, are placed at the feeding points within the city, and from these the distributing cables or mains radiate in all directions, each main being fitted with positive and negative fuses in the manhole. In districts where it can be arranged, section pillars above ground are now being used in place of the underground manholes. The whole arrangement has been most carefully systematised and standardised."
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Apollo
July 23, 2010, 12:43pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Your collection is great, as always.
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BenCooper
July 23, 2010, 1:21pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Enigma
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Quoted Text
Ben you say there were turbines, how many? were these steam or gas?, was the Ruston sets one of these? What was the name plate capcity!!


I'm going to have to go back with a notepad

The one I photographed was a Rushton, and it was the biggest - probably twice as big as the other two. It was gas-fired, as were the other two. I didn't see any sign of boilers - they were in brick rooms inside the dark grains plant. They presumably exhaust somewhere (there were vents leading upwards) but I don't think the chimney was just for them, I think that was for the dark grains plant.

That's a fascinating description - Ive got the 1912 book but it doesn't go into that much detail...
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WANLOCK
July 23, 2010, 1:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Enigma
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Location: Busan, Republic of Korea
Is it worth exporing the precursors of the Nationalised Industries, Pinkston Power Station was run by Galsgow , also gas works etc, Provan as an example.

When out delving about when home came across a reference to the 'Clyde Valley Authority', is that a reference to the hydtro electic schemes around New Lanark?
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BenCooper
July 23, 2010, 1:48pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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I think so. I've also got some brochures somewhere for the Highlands hydro schemes of the '30s, I'll dig them out and scan them. One has a picture of a turbine being hauled up a remote glen by three steam traction engines...
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WANLOCK
July 23, 2010, 1:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Enigma
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Location: Busan, Republic of Korea
Other hydro installations at Tongland in D&G, power for a car plant?, Arrol Johnston circa 1920?, again from picking up snippits.There is a wealth of industrial archaoelogy still extant in Scotland. Strontian mines that gave the element the name of Strontium, lots to explore, we have a rich history that deserves exposure.
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cell
July 23, 2010, 2:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Illusion
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Quoted from WANLOCK
Is it worth exporing the precursors of the Nationalised Industries, Pinkston Power Station was run by Galsgow , also gas works etc, Provan as an example.

When out delving about when home came across a reference to the 'Clyde Valley Authority', is that a reference to the hydtro electic schemes around New Lanark?


I prepared this a while ago!

The Clyde Valley Electrical Power Company Ltd was formed in 1901 with the aim of generating and selling electricity to the numerous engineering concerns in and around Glasgow. The company initially planned 3 stations at Motherwell Yoker and Crookston (the Crookston station never materialised) and the company signed a contract in 1902 with the British Westinghouse Electrical & Manufacturing Co Ltd to design, equip and build the stations at Motherwell and Yoker. The intention was for each station to have three 1.5MW engine generator sets however late in 1902 the decision was made to switch to the new steam turbine alternators which were beginning to be adopted as the most efficient way of generating electricity and whose development Westinghouse was at the forefront. Orders were placed with Babcock & Wilcox for boilers in Oct 1903 for both stations. The company opted to install only two 2MW sets at each station but to include foundations for a third 3.5MW set at each. Before the stations were finished additional foundations for a fourth set at each had been approved in 1904.

The official opening of the Yoker station was on 21/06/1905 and supply commenced on 10/08/1905, Motherwell opened in January 1906.

Motherwell was first to be extended in 1907, with a 4MW set which proved problematic and had to be removed soon after by the manufacturer. To compensate, Westinghouse proposed a remedial plan which the company accepted and in 1908 the two 2MW sets at Motherwell were upgraded to 3MW each by rewinding, one of the 2MW sets was transferred from Yoker to Motherwell and temporary 1MW & 0.6MW sets were installed at Yoker. These appear to have been the only ones available from Westinghouse and were on an a sell back option for when more appropriate units were available. This demonstrates the rapid growth of the electricity generating and equipment supply industries at this time and illustrates some of the problems encountered. Generating company had to be prepared to be flexible, moving and installing equipment on short time scales and utilising what was available, equipment suppliers were designing and building ever bigger machines which often encountered teething problems requiring remedial work and machines to be juggled on the production lines, often machines had to diverted from other contracts depending the progress of the building works ongoing at the stations and the importance of the contracts.

In 1909 two 2MW sets at Yoker were rewound to provide 3MW each which suggests that the transferred set had been replaced at some time. By 1912 two further 5MW sets had been installed at Yoker and the 1MW & 0.6MW sets sold back. Two additional 5MW sets were also installed by 1912 at Motherwell, additional boilers at both works for these units were again supplied by Babcocks. These 5MW sets, at least at Yoker, were later rewound to give 6MW.

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cell
July 23, 2010, 2:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Illusion
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Part 2
Although the market was there, it appears that the Motherwell station was not ideally placed to be further expanded, cooling water would have been an important consideration, and the company opted to build and develop the much larger station at Clyde’s Mill which opened in 1916. The Motherwell station was closed at some time around 1930, with the buildings demolished in the 1970s.

The Yoker station, situated on the banks of the Clyde, with plenty of cooling water and good access for coal supplies was further developed by the Company over the coming years. A 18.75MW set was installed in 1918, two 20MW sets in 1929 & 1931 and a pair of 30MW sets in 1937 and 1939. By 1949 the station capacity was 100MW. It is not known when the older smaller sets were decommissioned but the company did change frequency during this period from 25 to 50 hz which would have made the oldest machines obsolete. There is a 1932 reference to scrapping a 15 year old 25hz machine which is probably the 18.75MW set, implying that the smaller sets had been removed or replaced earlier, possibly as part of the installation of the 20MW sets. Early in the life of the station, boilers were not tied to specific sets and were often added to and reused with the newer turbines however as steam conditions advanced specific new boilers and boiler house extensions were required.

Work on the Clyde’s Mill station started in 1915, incidentally the station was named because the site was formally occupied by a mill owned by a Mr Clyde and not because of its location. It was opened on 1st Nov 1916, a second 6MW set was commissioned in 1918 bring the capacity to 12MW, this was increased to 49.5MW with the addition of two 18.75MW sets in 1921 and 1926. This section of the station was later know as the LP (low pressure) section to reflect the steam conditions. Between 1936 and 1949, four 30MW units were added which were known as the IP (intermediate pressure) section and brought the station capacity to 157.5MW. The two original 6MW sets were probably scrapped around 1939. In both 1952 and 1955 additional pairs of 30 MW units were added, these four new units formed the HP (high pressure) section and brought the total capacity to 277.5MW which at that time was the biggest in Scotland.

The turbines for the LP and IP sections were supplied by British Westinghouse, who later become Metropolitan Vickers, and for the HP section by English Electric. The earliest boilers were supplied by Babcocks, with IP and HP boilers being supplied by Yarrows. The physical development of the station can be seen in the aerial picture which I posted previously, the oldest part is to the left, each new section being added downstream, noticeable is that the chimneys reduce in number but increase in size with each addition, reflecting the trend towards fewer and larger boilers for each turbine. The cooling towers were added during the HP development and were designed to conserve cooling water particularly during dry periods. As I’ve mentioned previously a 55MW gas turbine was installed at the site in 1965 however this seems to have been independent of the main station and was used during times of peak demand. The gas turbine continued in used until 1984, after the station itself closed in 1978. The main station was demolished in 1984/85 with the gas turbine building being demolished in 2000.
The company was also instrumental in the development of hydro electric power in Scotland, through its subsidiary, the Lanarkshire Hydro-electric Power Company. The Falls of Clyde hydro-electric scheme was the first large scheme of its type built for the public supply of electricity. The stations, Bonnington (output 11 MW) and Stonebyres (output 6 MW) were built in 1926 and fully commissioned in 1927. They are currently owned by Scottish Power and are the oldest public supply hydro-electric power stations in Scotland.

Over the life of the company it took over a number of smaller supply and generating companies, notable the Kilmalcolm Electric Lighting Co Ltd which had built a small station in 1903, and also the supply orders which had been granted to some of the smaller municipal corporations around Glasgow.
The Clyde Valley Electrical Power Company Ltd was nationalised in 1948 and its assets transferred to the South West Scotland Electricity Board which was a division of the British Electricity Authority, in a further reorganization the On 1 April 1955, the two southern Scottish Area Electricity Boards were merged into the South of Scotland Electricity Board (SSEB) who eventually closed the Yoker and Clyde’s Mill stations in 1976 and 1978 respectivly.
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Apollo
July 23, 2010, 2:23pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Scotland is dotted with dozens of tiny hydro schemes, many associated with 'big houses' and installed on lochs within their estates, or as run-of-river schemes.

cell was kind enough to provide SeSco with a listing, which turned out be a HUGE listing (thanks mate ) and which we simply don't know how to deal with, as it has so much wonderful stuff in it, which we had no idea about.

We thought we were doing well having landed an early booklet about the hydro-electric schemes large enough to interest the power companies in the early days, but that covers only a handful of larger sites.

It turns out that Canmoe also has many of them listed, which is useful as it also tends to show which big house, or estate, the little hydro scheme belonged to.
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cell
July 23, 2010, 2:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Illusion
Posts: 123
Quoted from BenCooper
I think so. I've also got some brochures somewhere for the Highlands hydro schemes of the '30s, I'll dig them out and scan them. One has a picture of a turbine being hauled up a remote glen by three steam traction engines...


Droool Droool! Get them scanned!

If anyone is interested in the history of hydro in Scotland this has just been published, thanks to DF who pointed me in it's direction, they will send you a free copy if you phone them up.
http://www.celebratingscotlandsarchitecture.org/index/downloads.htm

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BenCooper
July 23, 2010, 2:40pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Enigma
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Will do - speaking of which, because of a HD crash I've lost the Google Earth mapping I did with your data - any chance you've got a copy?
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BenCooper
July 23, 2010, 7:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Okay, here's the Hydro-Electric Brochure. The other one is entitled "The Caledonian Power Scheme", produced by The Association for the Preservation of Rural Scotland in 1938 - it's not very nteresting, though.

Also found a brochure from Kincardine - will scan that now.
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Apollo
July 23, 2010, 8:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Superb brochure - thanks for taking the time to make it available

It's a pleasure to look through it, and then get the wonderful view that really sets in time at the end, with the rotor being transported to site using... traction engines!

Fred Dibnah would approve
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cell
July 24, 2010, 3:47pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Illusion
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Ben that was great, looking forward to the Kincardine one, once did a job in there many moons ago!

For those of you who haven’t guessed, I’ve an interest in the history of electricity generation and power stations in Scotland. I’ve been collating details, in a spreadsheet, of as many stations as I can find and Ben kindly converted it into a KML file for viewing on Google earth. I’m currently tweaking it and if anyone wants a copy drop me a PM and I’ll send you one once I’ve updated it. If Ben will oblige I’ll get the KML updated at the same time. Ben, I’ll sent you the original KML and the spread sheet in the next week or so.

In the meantime I wonder if anyone could help with the two stations below:-

Paisley
The RCAHMS site has three references for power stations in Paisley, the original corporation one, which I believe is still standing, was at Blackhall street, grid ref NS 4897 6337, this was opened in 1899 and closed in 1930. This was replaced with a new station opened in 1923 at Ferguslie (it might have been called Ferguslie Mills) which was closed in 1957, RCAHMS doesn’t seem to list this one, it does have a reference to a “central power station at Ferguslie Thread Works” grid ref  NS 46725 63234. It also has a reference to a power station at the “Seedhill Finishing Works”  grid ref NS 4925 6357. Both of these seem to be associated with industrial works and not a big public supply, therefore if any can give me a location, grid ref, any details or even a photograph of the Ferguslie one which was latterly operated by the SSEB I would be most grateful.

Shotts
There were a number of coal mines in the Lanarkshire area which generated their own electricity however, I’m particularly interested in any details of the NCB Central Generating Station which was at Shotts. This seems to have been quite a large station as it supplied a number of mines (KEPPLEHILL 1 and 2 Colliery CALDERHEAD 3 and 4 Colliery (also known as MUIRACRE Colliery) BATON Colliery and FORTISSAT Colliery). All I have for this one is a closure date of 1954, I don’t even know exactly where it was located, anyone any ideas?
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BenCooper
July 24, 2010, 8:06pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Enigma
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Okay, I've just uploaded the Kincardine brochure:



Kincardine power station brochure

I also have this:



It's all typewritten text, lots of it, but I could photograph it if you're interested.
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WANLOCK
July 25, 2010, 5:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Enigma
Posts: 506
Location: Busan, Republic of Korea
Thanks to all, at least now I have an understanding of the Clyde Valley scheme, as I had already posted, thought it was the small hydro units on the Clyde close to Lanark. There is a wealth of industrial archaeology to explore. On one visit to the Mining Museum at Wanlockhead,, another concept, they have a model and photographs of a hydraulic engine that is still extant within the New Glencrieff mine. Water power was utilised in preference to steam as carting in coal was expensive.. The mine owners built a tunnel from a resevoir above Wanlockhead as a source, the tunnel paid for itself from sale of lead extracted.
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jmb
July 25, 2010, 9:04am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Secret
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Location: Fort William
Quoted from Apollo
Scotland is dotted with dozens of tiny hydro schemes, many associated with 'big houses' and installed on lochs within their estates, or as run-of-river schemes..


One was "found" near here a couple of years ago, it user to power Inverlochy Castle until the BA diverted its water supply into their tunnel.  It was removed and taken to the BA factory where I think it is on display.  There are also the remains of a home-made hydro plant using a cable drum as the wheel and car dynamo as generator.  It fed a tin shack where someone used to live.



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BenCooper
July 25, 2010, 10:53am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Enigma
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Back to Port Dundas: I was in the area, so went to have another look at the turbines. I think I was mistaken - the two smaller things are large compressors, not turbines. The Ruston has no plates on it anywhere giving specifications...
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WM
July 27, 2010, 9:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Enigma
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Quoted from cell


Shotts
There were a number of coal mines in the Lanarkshire area which generated their own electricity however, I’m particularly interested in any details of the NCB Central Generating Station which was at Shotts. This seems to have been quite a large station as it supplied a number of mines (KEPPLEHILL 1 and 2 Colliery CALDERHEAD 3 and 4 Colliery (also known as MUIRACRE Colliery) BATON Colliery and FORTISSAT Colliery). All I have for this one is a closure date of 1954, I don’t even know exactly where it was located, anyone any ideas?


Try contacting this site http://www.shottshistorygroup.co.uk . They may be able to help. I'm sure there will be people in the area who remember it, or maybe even have worked in it.
Doing an internet search give vague hints that the power station may have been part of Shotts Ironworks, who owned the pits in the area before becoming part of the NCB.  Photographs of the ironworks also show a tall narrow chimney more in keeping with a power station than furnaces.
There was also a power station which may interest you in Flemington, Motherwell supplying the Lanarkshire steelworks. There was also one near the Clyde which generated power for the trams called Power House which later became a bus garage called Traction House. Motherwell seems to have had several power stations over the years.

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cell
July 29, 2010, 11:51am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Illusion
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Thanks WM I'll give them a try, I had a record for the Iron works but it hadn't occurred to me that the two might be connected.

I've got 3 public supply records for Motherwell

Motherwell Electricity Dept (no definite location) opened in 1901,demolished?
Lanarkshire Tramways Co (Hamilton Rd) opened in 1903, demolished? Old Motherwell says building is still partially there
Clyde Valley Electrical Power Co (Leven st) opened 1906, demolished in the 1970s

In Motherwell, I've also got both Ravenscraig & Hurst Nelson having their own generating plant

I'm interested in the one you mention at Flemington, was this the Hallside steel works? I've also got records of ones at Wishaw Iron & Steel Works, Gartsherrie Iron Works, Clydebridge Steel Works and Clyde Iron Works
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WM
July 29, 2010, 4:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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The Flemington one was the Lanarkshire Steel Company whose works were near Ravenscraig. Their generator hall was right on the main street at Flemington St. and stood for many years after the rest of the works had been demolished and looked quite a modern building, just behind the wall here.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?.....p=12,349.55,,0,14.15

Up till very recently there was a gate there with the company's name on it, but I think it must have been removed when the new roundabout was built.
The steelworks themselves were on the site where Motherwell College now is.

The tramways one was here, with the whole building recently demolished.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?.....968&t=h&z=18

The dates of your Motherwell Electricity Dept and Clyde Valley Power Company could imply that the old power station was demolished and the new one built on the same site, but that's just speculation on my part.
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Apollo
July 29, 2010, 9:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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If you use Google Earth to view the site of Traction House, instead of Google Maps, you can roll back the imagery and see the buildings there prior to demolition.

Enter Motherwell Traction House in the Fly to box, and it will fly you directly there, then just slide the historical imagery slider to the left, for the earlier view.
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Captain Brittles
July 29, 2010, 11:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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The Clyde Valley Electrical Power Company Ltd. I think also supplied electricity to domestic dwellings in villages in (most parts of) Lanarkshire up to nationalisation of the industry.
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Apollo
July 30, 2010, 12:31am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I walked over a large man, sorry, person-hole cover today, with that very name cast into its surface

I was going to mention it in case anyone was familiar with it, but it looks as if they had services in the east end of Glasgow, as well as villages of Lanarkshire. This was seen somewhere between Shettleston and Tollcross, or maybe Parkhead - I went out for a jaunt to the shops, should have been no more than an hour's worth of ambling, but I got distracted and it took four hours before I got back home, so can't recall the exact spot as I covered a little more ground than expected.
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WM
July 30, 2010, 3:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Enigma
Posts: 893
Quoted from Apollo
If you use Google Earth to view the site of Traction House, instead of Google Maps, you can roll back the imagery and see the buildings there prior to demolition.

Enter Motherwell Traction House in the Fly to box, and it will fly you directly there, then just slide the historical imagery slider to the left, for the earlier view.


I didn't realise that Google Earth had that facility till I read your post. I've tried it and and it works for Traction House, you can, as you say, see it before demolition.

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Apollo
July 30, 2010, 6:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Good stuff - a happy camper

I don't think anyone ever bothers to press the buttons or explore the menus, and many toys in GE go wanting.

Just for info, it has:

A flight simulator built-in

Undersea views if you dive below the surface of the sea

Sky mode, which shows all the stars

Mars and Moon views, where you can explore their surfaces in the same way as the Earth

These should all be pretty obvious if you just drop down the menus, and have read/play with the listed option.
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BenCooper
July 30, 2010, 8:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Enigma
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Quoted Text
Mars and Moon views, where you can explore their surfaces in the same way as the Earth


What's funny is that it uses the same mapping engine for the planets as it does for the Earth - which is why when I tried it to show the young 'un, it had a detailed plan of ROF Bishopton in the middle of Valles Marineris
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The Fox
July 30, 2010, 10:38pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Secret
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I knew the ROF was immense but...................
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Captain Brittles
July 30, 2010, 11:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Secret
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GE Street View has ventured out on to the rurality of the B818. Mind you I think the loading times have suffered big style, its a mess of emerging pixels.
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WM
July 31, 2010, 7:52am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Enigma
Posts: 893
Quoted from BenCooper


What's funny is that it uses the same mapping engine for the planets as it does for the Earth - which is why when I tried it to show the young 'un, it had a detailed plan of ROF Bishopton in the middle of Valles Marineris


That's taking outsourcing to extremes. I thought moving work to India was bad enough!
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cell
August 1, 2010, 3:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Illusion
Posts: 123
Quoted from Apollo
I walked over a large man, sorry, person-hole cover today, with that very name cast into its surface

I was going to mention it in case anyone was familiar with it, but it looks as if they had services in the east end of Glasgow, as well as villages of Lanarkshire. This was seen somewhere between Shettleston and Tollcross, or maybe Parkhead - I went out for a jaunt to the shops, should have been no more than an hour's worth of ambling, but I got distracted and it took four hours before I got back home, so can't recall the exact spot as I covered a little more ground than expected.


Would love to see a picture of that!

The CVEP was a huge concern, supplying up to city boundary on all sides, I've seen CVEP plates, like the one below, on power line poles out past Dumbarton, remember Yoker was a huge station. I believe they also supplied industries within the city limits.

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cell
August 1, 2010, 3:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from WM
The Flemington one was the Lanarkshire Steel Company whose works were near Ravenscraig. Their generator hall was right on the main street at Flemington St. and stood for many years after the rest of the works had been demolished and looked quite a modern building, just behind the wall here.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?.....p=12,349.55,,0,14.15

Up till very recently there was a gate there with the company's name on it, but I think it must have been removed when the new roundabout was built.
The steelworks themselves were on the site where Motherwell College now is.

The tramways one was here, with the whole building recently demolished.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?.....968&t=h&z=18

The dates of your Motherwell Electricity Dept and Clyde Valley Power Company could imply that the old power station was demolished and the new one built on the same site, but that's just speculation on my part.


Thanks WM, that's good info, the LSC is a new one to me and the you've help me pin down the tramway one.  I think the CVEP and the Motherwell Electricity Dept were separate sites, I have the following details for the MED one but no exact location, so I would welcome any help on that one.

In the year 1895, the town council of Motherwell obtained permission, under the 1882 Act, to supply electric light. ( Motherwell Electric Lighting Order 1895.) the station was completed and should have been opened with ceremony, but owing to the death of Queen Victoria this was cancelled and the station was formally opened by Mrs Jack wife of Bailie Jack Convener of the dept ot 6pm on 01/02/01
The plant consisted of of two 20kw 230V(Lights) machines and two 60kw 460V (Motive Power) machines, with battery capacity, 240amps or 40amps for 6hours total capacity 160kw ( In SE 2x100hp Willians Robinson & Co directcoupled to 4 Mavor & Coulson dynamos 2 lancashire boilers supplied be G Sinclair)
At the end of 1902 a 180kw generator with a Marshall Lancashire Boiler
In 1903 a 500kw generator was added (Aug02 SE indicate a contract placed for a 500kw Willans engine with a Lancashire Dynamo & Motor Co Ltd Dynamo
In 1904 a 500Kw generator and a Babcock boiler was added
In 1907 a 500Kw generator and a Babcock boiler was added
In 1908 a 500kw generator was added
In 1907 a 1100Kw turbo generator and a Babcock boiler was added

The CEVP station was Leven St, I think at NS 746 567, but I'm not 100%, the dates in the following details would seem to confirm that both were seperate and in existance at the same time.

Motherwell was first to be extended in 1907, with a 4MW set which proved problematic and had to be removed soon after by the manufacturer. To compensate, Westinghouse proposed a remedial plan which the company accepted and in 1908 the two 2MW sets at Motherwell were upgraded to 3MW each by rewinding, one of the 2MW sets was transferred from Yoker to Motherwell and temporary 1MW & 0.6MW sets were installed at Yoker.

Two additional 5MW sets were also installed by 1912 at Motherwell, additional boilers at both works for these units were again supplied by Babcocks


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Apollo
August 1, 2010, 7:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from cell
Would love to see a picture of that!

It was a tad unfortunate I went a little further than intended, and had no camera, but it is at least mentally tagged to look again when I stumble into the area again so will hopefully find it again.
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Apollo
October 14, 2010, 3:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I was sure it was down Springfield Road, towards Dalmarnock, but as I searched around for this while I was there today, couldn't come up with anything on the streets I usually pound, and I was 99.9% I was in the right area - although I was a bit short of the usual end point for this wander, and a few streets there that look similar to the ones I was in today, so this is still pencilled in, just in case the Clyde Valley cover was a little further along the road.

If not, then I'll have to give up, as I have no idea where I was when I spotted this previously, and it's gone for good
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cell
January 14, 2012, 4:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Illusion
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I eventually got to the bottom of the three power stations in Motherwell that were used for public supply, I found the CVEP clearly marked on an old OS map

Motherwell Electricity Dept. opened 1901 closed? NS 75208 56740 South side of Mason st, demolished in the 1970s and now a carpark.

Motherwell Tram, Lanarkshire Tramways Co. opened 1903 closed? NS 74324 56544 on Hamilton Rd, recently demolished for new flats.

Motherwell Clyde Valley Electrical Power Co opened 1906 closed 1932 NS 75061 55880 off Leven St down by the Clyde at the back of what I think is a Scottish Power depot, demolished in the 1970s
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BenCooper
January 14, 2012, 8:04pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Shame the tram one was so recent - it would have been good to document that one...
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WM
January 15, 2012, 5:02pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Enigma
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Quoted from BenCooper
Shame the tram one was so recent - it would have been good to document that one...

The tram one was in its latter days a bus garage, called Traction House, but older people still used to refer to it by its original name of Power House, as it was called when it was a generating station.
I don't know when trams stopped running to Motherwell, but it was a very long time ago, so I don't think there would be any of the generating equipment left in the building, it was by then just a bus maintenance garage.
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The Fox
January 15, 2012, 5:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Traction House was the name of the Headquarters of the SMT (Scottish Motor Traction Company),  the address was painted on every bus at the bottom nearside.   There must have been a fairly large administration building there too.
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cell
April 11, 2012, 10:49am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Illusion
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Quoted from cell
I eventually got to the bottom of the three power stations in Motherwell that were used for public supply, I found the CVEP clearly marked on an old OS map

Motherwell Electricity Dept. opened 1901 closed? NS 75208 56740 South side of Mason st, demolished in the 1970s and now a carpark.

Motherwell Tram, Lanarkshire Tramways Co. opened 1903 closed? NS 74324 56544 on Hamilton Rd, recently demolished for new flats.

Motherwell Clyde Valley Electrical Power Co opened 1906 closed 1932 NS 75061 55880 off Leven St down by the Clyde at the back of what I think is a Scottish Power depot, demolished in the 1970s


Some good aerial pics of the CVEP station
http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/e.....ctric+power+station/

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