Hi there, I hope somebody can help me find out more about a pet subject I have been studying for a while now. Legend has it that a vaulted passage was constructed under the Clyde linking the Donjon at Bothwell Castle with Blantyre Craig (the site of Blantyre Priory on the other side of the river) This passage is mentioned in multiple books spanning the 18th/19th/20th centuries. and is used in the old novel Scottish Chiefs to enhance the story. It is also said that sometime in the year of 1945 this tunnel was found, but other than that I know nothing.

It was apparently a vaulted passage hewn out of the solid bedrock under the clyde, starting in the castle and ending either below the 100 foot precipice of Blantyre Craig, or reaching the Priory on top. The latter option is extremely unlikely.

The late Neil Gordon in his 2006 book describes a large boulder as blocking a cave below Blantyre Craig, which he believes blocks this passage.

The man that works in Bothwell Castle informed me that "in the old days" the masons who maintained the building knew secretly where the castle end of the entrance existed, but they kept it secret. He also informed me that he knew a bunch of boys in his youth who knew of the tunnel but kept it secret, and apparently ventured into the tunnel using tarred-up potato sacks to allow them to traverse a flooded section of this passage.

Considering the Castle was constructed entirely from the now gone adjacent cliff, and considering this sort of stone is easy to work, and that such passages were not uncommon in castles, and the fact the legend has spanned 4 centuries, it all acts as compelling evidence that this tunnel may exist.

Now my question is, Does anyone know more???

I want to find out how well-known this legend is, if anyone has seen it, or knows anything that may even relate slightly to the story.

I appreciate anything any of you can tell me.

Note: I do not plan to venture into this tunnel - The risk of collapse, lack of air, disorientation are far too great, but I would like to get photos of the entrance, inform WOSAS, etc...

Thanks

The cynic in me says that there are hundreds of legends like this - the persistence of the legend isn't good evidence of it's truth

I should perhaps be more specific to support this cause. I have already found, surveyed and catalogued 157 new archaeological sites in the areas of East Kilbride and High Blantyre, including passages, caves, burial vaults, cairns, a castle bigger than Bothwell Castle, incised stones, cup and ring marks, monks burial mounds, etc.... I have dismissed many legends which I did not think carried enough weight. So you could say I have learned my lesson from many wild goose chases. I have a copy of almost every local resource and want to take the next step so to speak. I am sure from what I have experienced with my research so far that this story carries overwhelming evidence. I have traced 23 books and 3 manuscripts which describe this legend in detail.

Although the continuation of the general story through 4 centuries doesn't prove much, the details within those stories do. These books were printed by publishers spanning britain and europe and the story remains consistent, and several reputable historical sources support the story: Sir Walter Scott, Dorothy Wordsworth, etc... The layout of the design between the two buildings creates striking lines of sight, and discrepencies occur on the river banks which suggest manipulation below the precipice. Also a well was found in the base of the great Donjon in the 1800's.
The landforms all due west of the castle have been extensively reshaped and the well at Bothwell Castle is fathoms deep. They were certainly capable of such things.

I always approach such stories very skeptically, but when it kept resurfacing during my own research I had to investigate further. Everyhting I have ever set out to find with conviction I have ended up finding sooner or later. If anyone has even the tiniest snippet of information I am sincerely grateful.

Quoted from Calaterium

Although the continuation of the general story through 4 centuries doesn't prove much, the details within those stories do. These books were printed by publishers spanning britain and europe and the story remains consistent, and several reputable historical sources support the story: Sir Walter Scott, Dorothy Wordsworth, etc...

In my experience this suggests that one person wrote about this tunnel and every writer thereafter repeated the claim - probably word for word. Antiquarians of the past seemed happy to do this as it spiced up and added some mystery to their own publications.

On a slightly less sceptical level I have visited Bothwell Castle since boyhood and been down in the Don Jon many times. I have also visited the ruins of Blantyre Priory on two occasions - by way of visiting the carvings below. Now - and without doing a goog both were built around the same time c.13th. century, the castle by an illustrious forebear of mine [a Murray] and the priory by the Augustine Order of monks.

Now it could be that the floor level of the priory and the castle base is about the same height from the water but I cannot see why anyone would (and even more who would finance it) see any benefit in linking both by a tunnel.
If there ever was a tunnel going under the Clyde it would as suggested not have been driven up through the strata of sandstone on the western escarpment. There would be no point. However having a tunnel opening anywhere within 12 feet of normal water level would be stupid, the risk of spates flooding it would be far too great.
It is for both above reasons plus the cost factor that I think this is a myth.

I think you have two very valid points which I balance in my mind alongside the arguments in favour of its existance. Many castles had entrances into caves and such escape routes were prone to flooding, and they did remove the entire cliff to build the castle. It is said that this tunnel served as escape for the holy men and woman to the sanctuary of the priory.

As for the antiquarian repitition, I constantly see such instances in old books. What interests me about this story is the fact that one book describes it as being re-discovered in the 1700's, and another describes vaulting, wheareas another goes into crazy detail about a strong room halfway along, and brick walls to support the roof. There is even a letter in existance saying that Sir Walter Scott in his earlier days visited it secretly and inscribed his name on the tunnel passage. Also the boys mentioned by the Castle shop worker said the tunnel was flooded.

Right now my opinion is

60% in favour 40% against.

The builder of Bothwell Castle was hired by Murray from France/Germany to build the most beautiful building in Christendom. Where the castle architect came from Castles are riddled with long-stretching secret tunnels through cliffs etc...

Quoted Text

In my experience this suggests that one person wrote about this tunnel and every writer thereafter repeated the claim - probably word for word. Antiquarians of the past seemed happy to do this as it spiced up and added some mystery to their own publications.

That seems to happen very often, I am sure the famous Aurora story at Machrihanish is like that.  Also a friend is researching a possible ancestor who was awarded the VC.  All the reference sources give his place of birth and death but she has just about proved that both are completely wrong.

A tunnel under the Clyde is very implausible, all the references suggest the Thames tunnel in the early 19th Century was the first tunnel under a navigable river so if there was a much earlier Clyde tunnel then it would be of major historical importance.

MB

It is not imposssible that either or both buildings had tunnels to the river but I share the doubts about them joining up.   A similar tunnel was found at Paisley Abbey in the 1990s.  It turned out to be a medieval drain  The link below will take you to more iinfo and an internal picture.

Paisley Abbey page and click on 14!

The Thames tunnel was proven not to be the first. Cromwell ordered deep linear mines which extended out under the sea for coal for hundreds of metres.

The number of primitive mines and quarries all over this district is very impressive, and if such a subaqueous route did exist, what more appropriate location than bothwell castle. Bothwell Castle is an extremely grand ruin with complex architecture for the time. The donjon extends deep through the solid rock, etc... I still think that if such a tunnel did exist, Bothwell Castle and its layout and allignment with the priory is extremely appropriate.

The Thames tunnel was proven not to be the first. Cromwell ordered deep linear mines which extended out under the sea for coal for hundreds of metres.

The number of primitive mines and quarries all over this district is very impressive, and if such a subaqueous route did exist, what more appropriate location than bothwell castle. Bothwell Castle is an extremely grand ruin with complex architecture for the time. The donjon extends deep through the solid rock, etc... I still think that if such a tunnel did exist, Bothwell Castle and its layout and allignment with the priory is extremely appropriate.

The mines under the Forth are quite early but I don't think there are any tunnels actually crossing a navigable waterway that precede the Thames Tunnel.

MB

I think the earliest mine tunnels under the Forth were from Valleyfield (17th century),and the main shaft was a good distance offshore.

ok 25 years ago and for many years i used to visit bothwell castle and the old man that worked there who retired a few years ago not the one who is there now told me that some old men used to come up to the castle and they talked about when they were kids they found a tunnel and boys being boys they decided to find out where it went they ended up across the river on the blantyre side..he told me there were more tunnels and where i could find them  and that he had actually seen them.they are actually some on the hill as you walk towards the river and nature trail the on the public side of the fence as you walk down they are on the hill on the left hand side at the fence..on the other side was that beautiful big house 1 nearest the castle that hurry brothers used to own and it was sold and is demolished now, on that property tunnels were also there , theguy that lived there hurry bros had sons and one day they went missing they searched all day could not find them they came home eventually saying they had found tunnels and they went down them they led to the inside of the castle and the boys had played there all day the father blocked u the tunnels straight away and you could still see them in the garden right up till they pulled it down and i saw them 3 years ago hop this helps

"The subsequent history of the castle is somewhat uneventful and towards the end of the 17th century, Archibald Douglas, First Earl of Forfar, moved out and started to build a fine Palladian mansion, Bothwell House, using much of the stone from the castle. Alas, like Hamilton Palace, just five years before it, Bothwell House was demolished in 1926, a victim of subsidence from coal mining. The only remaining structure being the current entrance to Bothwell Castle Golf Club. However, nearly 800 years later, Historic Scotland is proud to maintain Bothwell Castle as part of the nation’s built heritage."

This is a quote from http://www.bothwellcommunitycouncil.org.uk/2008/09/
Various other mentions of these mines exist in some books to. The above maps which led under the mansion (Bothwell House) are not shown on any OS maps I have seen. I would assume that if tunnels were found in the vicinity of the mansion they would be coal mines. As for children going down them then claiming to end up at the castle, one would think they just added 1 + 1 and came up with a good story due to local legend.

When you say that the man who used to work in the castle knew of other tunnels was he referring to the ones near the Mansion??

As for the story of boys finding a tunnel that led accross the river, this is exciting and if you have any other details I would like to know more.

This could well be the true tunnel! (the one under the river) if it does exist.

It would be exciting if true, right enough.
Got to ask the obvious question though; given the proximity of the two buildings, why not just use a boat instead of all the time and expense building a tunnel?
It would be easy enough to make a safe path down the cliff, surely?

BRAVO!

A quay was built for tourist boats on a bend south of the castle. This was probably constructed in the mid-late 18th century but could possibly date back to the 17th century. Another example closer to the castle is known as well, but no 13th century examples are known to exist.

A friend of mine suggested that a boat may have been set up, tied to a rope, so it would travel along a line of site to the priory craig (Blantyre Craig).

This is certainly possible. But an invading army would have been smart enough to spot such things.

We must remember that information, while publicly provided in good faith, may not be accurate. Many other structures remain that were connected with the second Bothwell Castle.

The building known as "The Poultry" stands adjacent to the road 'Castle Avenue' that was built in the 1970s to provide access to the extensive housing development that was permitted in the castle grounds. [Its route has almost no connection whatsoever with the roads that served the castle]. It is to the north and east of the castle. Opposite it, and accessed through the housing, is a once formal pond. Both these structures were reputed to supply the palace kitchens. To the south and east, now adjacent to the mini-roundabout close to the primary school, is part of a small stone tower. Its purpose is unclear and may have been build as a folly. Close to the castle, to the north, there is a stone bridge across the lower part of Jock's Burn. South of the castle, adjacent to the river, is the walled garden, now sadly a housing estate. Most of the 2m high wall that surrounded the grounds is still standing today.

Those chaps who were members of the local scout troops, who were allowed access to the grounds for summer activities, knew these places well. However, if they have already slipped from memory, what chance have we with recollections of tunnels being passed on?

Navigator

Quoted from Calaterium

A friend of mine suggested that a boat may have been set up, tied to a rope, so it would travel along a line of site to the priory craig (Blantyre Craig).
This is certainly possible. But an invading army would have been smart enough to spot such things.

That's always a problem, true. Are/were there any fords in the immediate area?