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The Fox
July 14, 2009, 8:30am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Secret
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Any one with an interest in the munitions dumping might want to read the later pages of this posting.

http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=40287
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Apollo
July 14, 2009, 10:59am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Forewarned is Forearmed
Secret
Posts: 6,490
We already listed a number of the Beaufort's Dyke reports on our page a few years back, but with the MoD revamp of their web sites which seemingly going on endlessly, many of the links to the original documents presented by them are being lost, and all you get now is a message saying the docs have been moved or removed, and inviting you to search the new site.

We have some of the later ones though, and they seem to be stable.

Never ending job
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Al90
July 15, 2009, 10:35pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Rumour
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Beauforts Dyke was blamed for White Phos canisters being found at various locations from Dunure to the Kintyre coastline over the past twenty years. Due to the depth of the Dyke this is impossible and if the locations of floating wartime range target locations are considerd it is apparent that the UXO's are from target misses at places like Craig Tarra near the Heads of Ayr. Crossaig and Skipness.
Debrix booster pellets( fuze Gaines) from 1000lb bombs, artillery shells etc were still being dumped at Beauforts up until the mid eighties, packed in ammo boxes on weighted steel pallets, as it was more cost effective than demolition.
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Apollo
July 16, 2009, 9:16am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Forewarned is Forearmed
Secret
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And thanks to recent input, we even know what gaines are

Regarding dumping at the Dyke, don't forget that it has been admitted that not all shipments made it there.

The weather ended the trip for a number of dump ship, and they were sunk by gunfire from their escorts.

Crews have also said they just dumped their loads at the first opportunity as they didn't fancy their chances of making it to the Dykien rough weather with a  load of unexploded ordnance which was also rigged with charges to sink it when they got there.

Unfortunately, by its very nature, the material involved in this is undocumented, and could be anything anywhere along the route.

Al90

Do you have any references confirming dumping at Beaufort's Dyke up to the mid 1980s?

We have only found info relating to a cessation of dumping there in the 1970s, and would like to quote references to later instances.

With regard to the items arriving on the shore, Hansard, Scottish Parliament, of Feb 24, 2002 records:

Alex Fergusson (South of Scotland) (Con):

As a result, the sea bed is littered with, at best, a variety of dumped munitions and, at worst, a lethal cocktail of explosive gases and nuclear substances waiting to be stirred up and released. The folly will be all the greater, given that we had a warning when, in 1995, a gas pipeline was laid through the region—admittedly before as much was known about the contents of the sea bed. The consequences of that were bad enough. After the pipeline was laid, 4,500 incendiary devices were washed ashore along the coast of Northern Ireland and south-west Scotland, which resulted in serious injuries to a child in Campbeltown and to an adult in Ballantrae. It is remarkable that more or worse injuries were not sustained.
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greenock
July 17, 2009, 7:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Illusion
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Just a short note on the possible origin of "Gaines" in the munitions world. I understand from a pal of mines who has studied Chemistry says that there was a US Scientist/Chemist by the name of John Marshall Gaines from New York City in the late 19th Century who may have a link with the processes involved.Will try to reseaech this over the weekend unless theres any keen friday night takers out there who can confirm or refute this.
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jmb
July 17, 2009, 8:46pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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The OED has this

Quoted Text
gaine

[Fr., = sheath.]

    A metal tube attached to a fuse.

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Al90
July 17, 2009, 10:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Rumour
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The Ammo breakdown section at Bishopton was dismantling  1000lb bombs, 2&3" motrar bombs,20pdr &  4.5" shell and  mines up until 1983. The debrix pellets were wrapped in news paper, packed into ammo boxes and palletised on steel, concrete weighted pallets for sea dumping. The dumping took place every six months when enough had built up in the magazines. I remember arranging sea dumping up until 1981.
I doubt that the Phosphorous munitions found on the coastline ever came from Beauforts d**e as the depth means that it is not tidal. A thin walled Phos bomb would have been crushed by the depth. Anyone who has collected Agates at Dunure knows that the tide washes the stones from the Heads of Ayr  down the coast line and it follows that target missed from Craig Tarra range (Greenan Castle) would move south in the same way.
It took me several years to find out where the Craig Tarra range was as it doesn't appear on the O.S. maps, it was only when studying an admiralty chart that I found that it was named after a rock dyke on the shore at Greenan Castle range. The range at Craig Tarra consisted of several flaoting steel targets for anti shipping practice.
To find more detail on Gaines search for "Fuze Gaines" also known as booster, CE or Debrix pellets.
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