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the_historian
May 10, 2009, 10:11am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Mystery
Posts: 233
Last time I was driving north over the new Clackmannanshire bridge I noticed something very strange. On the north bank of the river, between the two bridges and on land being cleared of demolition rubble, there's a 40 foot tower with a small dish similar to the old BSB satellite dish but revolving very rapidly. First thing that sprang to mind was radar of some kind, perhaps weather, but I can't imagine why the hell it's in that particular location.
Any ideas?
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Apollo
May 10, 2009, 10:45am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Forewarned is Forearmed
Secret
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That's intriguing.

I'd usually nip up for a look at something like that, but  can't at the moment.

You'll need to carry a camera

My mind picked the wrong place at first, and I had wondered of someone was installing an active memorial to radar, but then I realised I was thinking about the wrong place

Can you spot the location with a map ref to give better clue as to the actual spot perchance?
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the_historian
May 10, 2009, 10:54am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Mystery
Posts: 233
It's very roughly at NS92308820-on the southern edge of where the old power station was, just above the shoreline.
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Apollo
May 10, 2009, 11:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ok, I know where we are now.

Is this a "new" tower, or one of those from the old station?

Doesn't help with an answer though - nothing comes to mind.

Could be a sneaky directional receiver hunting for something - or somebody

Simple reception wouldn't need a moving dish, and if it's a small as an old BSB dish, then we're not looking at something too long ranging, but what would be the point of such a radar there? All it would show is the land around, and it wouldn't give much of an "early warning" against enemy aircraft incursions.

Head scratcher
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jmb
May 10, 2009, 12:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Sounds as if it could just be monitoring traffic in the Forth
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Apollo
May 10, 2009, 2:29pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Oops

I was about to make a frivolous suggestion that it was monitoring the movement of craft on the River Forth.

Maybe not so frivolous if it occurred to someone else as well.

The question then would be who, and for what purpose - it's hardly a hotspot of water travel, and cameras might, and I only say might, do a better job.
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jmb
May 10, 2009, 2:56pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Just guessing but perhaps the coverage of the Grangemouth area was restricted from their sites lower down in the Forth.

Cameras don't work as well at night or in fog.  The big vessels will be running AIS and reporting in but you can't beat a picture of what is actually going on in the area.

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greenock
May 10, 2009, 3:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Illusion
Posts: 183
Hi jmb & Everyone,
Could well be mistaken but I seem to remember the Met office Rainfall radar having to be relocated from Corse Hill up in the Whiteless forest Area of East Renfrewshire on account of europes largest windfarm being situated there.I understand that several other Masts had to be shifted to other locations from the site including some MOD structures.It just may be the rainfall radar over at the Kincardine Bridge.
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greenock
May 10, 2009, 4:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Illusion
Posts: 183
Been doing some checking and the new radar for the rainfall is at nearby Munduff Hill.So I was mistaken.How tall is the structure?
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greenock
May 10, 2009, 4:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Illusion
Posts: 183
Sorry you already said that it was 40 Foot.My apologies.
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The Fox
May 10, 2009, 4:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

Secret
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the_historian
May 10, 2009, 11:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Mystery
Posts: 233
Not really, Foxy. The thing at Kincardine has a focal point, same as a Sky dish. Height's about right though.
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alibali
May 11, 2009, 6:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Rumour
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the_historian
May 11, 2009, 7:53pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Mystery
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Cheers Ali.  
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Apollo
May 11, 2009, 8:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thanks alibali, led to press release (preceded by Sunday Herald story)...

TMD Technologies Limited
Release date: December 17, 2007

TMD Technologies has completed its PTX7602 S band transmitter for delivery to NATS-NSL for the new Kincardine radar installation in Fife. This additional primary radar for Glasgow International airport is being built to avoid interference to air traffic control from the 140 turbines planned for ScottishPower's new wind farm at Whitelee.

As well as helping the wind farm to gain approval to be built, the radar system has another green benefit: TMD's transmitter uses 30 per cent less energy than other designs.

"By making use of our advanced travelling wave tubes, we are able to reduce power consumption considerably compared with solid state devices of a similar type," said TMD sales director Graham H Brown.

Another advantage of the 40 kV PTX7602 is that it uses silicon based encapsulation for insulation rather than oil in its high voltage sections. This provides increased safety and convenience for the operator as well as being environmentally friendly.

TMD's extensive experience in the development and manufacture of high performance transmitters for aerospace applications, where space is at a premium, has resulted in an extremely compact and modular design.

Unlike previous TWT (travelling wave tube) based systems, the power supply for the new PTX7602 is built up of a series of separate in-service line replacement units (LRUs) combined within a standard 19 inch rack.

At the heart of the transmitter is TMD's PT6055 S band TWT which, combining high efficiency, reliability and long life, has proved an outstanding success in Watchman radars worldwide. The PT6055 also offers the advantages of predictable managed power with reliable through life support and reduced total life cycle costs when compared with solid state alternatives.

TMD Technologies' PTX7602 S band transmitter for the new Kincardine air traffic control tower will help prevent carbon dioxide emissions.

ScottishPower's Whitelee wind farm will consist of 140 wind turbines generating a total of 322 MW - sufficient to provide electricity to virtually every home in Glasgow. When completed, the generated power will prevent the emission of over 650 000 tons of carbon dioxide every year from the fossil fuels which would otherwise have been burned.

TMD Technologies is one of the world's leading designers and manufacturers of specialised transmitters for radar and electronic warfare applications, high voltage power supplies and microwave tubes. The multiple Queen's Award winning company also produces a range of advanced commercial microwave amplifiers for EMC testing and scientific applications.

Web: http://www.tmd.co.uk
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greenock
May 11, 2009, 11:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Illusion
Posts: 183
On this occasion I was not mistaken...sort of. Wonder what else has been displaced by the Whitelees windfarm. Any takers.I have one other at least which I reckon was shifted.
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Apollo
May 12, 2009, 12:44am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Secret
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Until they scrap it...

I think I'd describe it as a little bit more than "a small dish similar to the old BSB satellite dish" and I had nothing like this in my mind until I looked at the spec...

Data sheet on the PTX7602 S Band Transmitter

And the PT6055 TWT - Travelling Wave Tube, just to be compete.



That link saves you having to register your email with them so that you can fail to see the naughty "opt-in" email advert checkbox they have - the Code of Practice for reputable web advertising requires such boxes to be "opt-in" and not be ready checked for you to accept advertising emails and other rubbish if you take no action. Or you can do what I do and use a false one, so they are sending their ads into a big hole in cyberspace

Oh, here's the whole list of their data sheets, so you can aviod the pesky email harvester altogether

TMD Technologies Datasheet Download Page
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greenock
May 12, 2009, 9:15am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Illusion
Posts: 183
For anyone who wants to know about the traffic on S-Band have a look at http://zarya.info/Frequencies/FrequenciesSband.php.
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greenock
May 12, 2009, 9:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Illusion
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Dont forget the www before the // .
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the_historian
May 12, 2009, 11:31am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
Mystery
Posts: 233
Quoted from Apollo
Until they scrap it...

I think I'd describe it as a little bit more than "a small dish similar to the old BSB satellite dish" and I had nothing like this in my mind until I looked at the spec...


Bear in mind I was only seeing it while driving across the bridge 50 yards away!     I think the auld een did well.
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