I've been trying to search for info / pics on the UK termination end of the TAT-1 cable (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAT-1) and came across this little jem - http://indicatorloops.com/obanbay.htm including details of the buiildings. May be worth starting a wiki page on the oban area?
You'll find Oban, or more accurately Ganavan, covered in some detail - we couldn't resist
If you fire TAT-1 into the search, you'll find we're on the case for that too, only listed as a First at the moment, we're hunting down more info on the subject.
Wikipedia information is second-hand, not source material, so you won't normally find it referred to in SeSco, which doesn't mind admitting it's the same (second-hand info) as there's no shame in that. What would be wrong is being second-hand source referring or quoting a second-hand source - which I hope makes sense
meh - Thought I'd searched. Suspect typo and there was a user error in failing to look at the contents page. Definately on the 'todo: road trip' list. btw - I saw that some of the tat-1 spare valves were being flogged on ebay recently, although the chances of finding it again are minimal (ever tried to search ebay for 'tat'? 80% of all listings....)
I think the valves were for sale quite a while ago, but there was another site that had some info relating to them and their history.
I can't recall it, and the details are hazy, but I think the asking price was around $16,000 - whether it was obtained is another story.
Made me reach for my spares box, as I have couple of valves that look like 2 litre Irn-Bru bottles, but I doubt they'd be worth that much as they might be big, but don't have a famous history
I have just taken over as the new researcher at the Oban War and Peace Museum. On display in the museum is details and photographs of the building in which the cable was terminated, also we have abit of the cable itself and photographs of the men and the vessels used in bringing the cable ashore. I am willing to copy some of the photographs for you and any info that i have if you think that will help in anyway. We have some watchkeepers that actually worked on the project if you would like to talk to them. The museum itself is not open again until March 2nd and for those of you who don't know the museum has moved. We are now in the Old Oban Times building on the Esplanade. If we can help you we will. Come along and see us.
As you may have gathered, we've suffered a little trial and tribulation over the past few days thanks to Lycos unilaterally killing the email account that used to reliably channel important info to us.
Your offer is most welcome, and anything which appears will be fully attributed as to source of course.
Not that it has to be earned, but I see we've yet to have a page for the museum - that would have been rectified already, had we not been suffering a little diversion
Now that I know you have even more goodies on show than I thought (including the flying boat items) I will have to do something to make sure I actually get into Oban at a time when the museum is open. My usual travel patterns tend to be at anti-social times - a habit I should break, so might even see the interior other than in darkness and through glass
Hello Nikki, and welcome! Glad to see another teuchter among us! If researching War and Peace History is your interest, I'm sure you'll enjoy yourself on this forum. I wonder if there is anything in your museum dealing with Unity Mitford's death in Oban at the end of the war?
I have been thinking of going and getting some better pictures and sketches of the loop site before the grass gets too high, the ones on that site were taken a few years ago.
The TAT-1 site is on private ground and we have been unable to get access. I took some pictures from offshore last year, it is quite a large site site and looks very interesting.
Another puzzle for anyone around Oban - there is RN Y station shown at Oban in a booklet that I have, any ideas? It's possible the GPO site at Ganavan was built on a previous site but there are no signs of WWII type buildings there.
I may be mistaken - failing memory? - but two points worth recording.
1. Small parachutes were used to ensure that the cable descended evenly from the cable ship to the seabed. This technique was tested before the actual cable was laid in upper Loch Fyne.
2. The overland extension of the cable ran from Oban, by Connell (and Oban Radio), A819 to Inveraray, A83 to Arrochar, A814 along the east side of Loch Long and Gare Loch (incidentally, for the conspiracy theorists, following the original line of the road, which passed through what is now the centre of HM Naval Base Clyde), and onwards to whichever exchange was the terminus - presumably in London.
I may be mistaken - failing memory? - but two points worth recording.
1. Small parachutes were used to ensure that the cable descended evenly from the cable ship to the seabed. This technique was tested before the actual cable was laid in upper Loch Fyne.
2. The overland extension of the cable ran from Oban, by Connell (and Oban Radio), A819 to Inveraray, A83 to Arrochar, A814 along the east side of Loch Long and Gare Loch (incidentally, for the conspiracy theorists, following the original line of the road, which passed through what is now the centre of HM Naval Base Clyde), and onwards to whichever exchange was the terminus - presumably in London.
Passerby
There was a trunk cable (coax?) on that approximate route, I presume it went along the same route and used the same repeater buildings. I think most of these have now gone unless any were bought privately - I photographed some of the bricks in the debris from the one near the VMS near Pennygael cemetery recently. Another trunk cable ran up to Fort William. So perhaps Connel was on that cable. I can't see it being routed through Oban Radio because it was on the wrong side of the loch though there would have been a cable there.
On the Hill above Lochaline alongside the Road in is a big microwave Dish set fairly low directed at Mull.from memory I could not see a repeater in the opposite direction so I would imagine it is linked to wherever by cable.The Dish has a big BT logo and is kept pristine.Would this be linked to oban Etc in some way.
On the Hill above Lochaline alongside the Road in is a big microwave Dish set fairly low directed at Mull.from memory I could not see a repeater in the opposite direction so I would imagine it is linked to wherever by cable.The Dish has a big BT logo and is kept pristine.Would this be linked to oban Etc in some way.
I think it is just a branch off to feed Lochaline.
The microwave system around Mull was quite an early use of microwave links for local circuits as opposed to the big trunk sites. From memory it runs Gallanach > Craignure (not the site at 1900ft, the one near the village) > Glengorm then around Tiree and the West side of Mull to Pennyghael. There was another spur up to Kingairloch and probably Ardnamurchan area. Just cheaper than lots of submarine cables or long cable routes on land.
There was also a Scottish radio station near Craignure that carried the ROC circuits and the EVN.
jmb has already provided the Street View of the road that lead to this private estate, and shows the end of the road, and gate with lodge that marks the entrance.
I have been told part of the TAT-1installation was underground. An above ground building backs onto a cliff, and then a tunnel runs through this rock and comes out on the other side. Described as no more than 100 yards, and the building (not surprisingly) being full of 'American looking' equipment.
Although the grounds are private, and I suspect the area sufficiently intimate to be counted as curtilage, there is no public access - so no reasonable games to be played with the Scottish Open Access Code to go wandering for a look. The path from Oban, to approach from the other side, is said to be rather long.
As per the pic, perhaps taking up canoeing
Alternatively, a long lens from Kerrera, across the water, from where the old building can be seen clearly.
I can't see it being routed through Oban Radio because it was on the wrong side of the loch though there would have been a cable there.
I would agree that it is unlikely the cable went via GNE. Although special communications facilities were installed at GNE for the construction of TAT1, and the cablehead and GNE were connected by a series of landlines, these are likely to have been independent of the actual cable.
I have some pictures of the underground section at Gallanach - taken in 2000. Scans of prints so not great quality. I'll see if I can attach them.
Basically there was a long narrow tunnel leading from right side of the building shown above. That met the far end of the main tunnel deep under the hill. From the other end of the main tunnel there was a slightly larger tunnel leading out to another entrance further round the hill from the building. This was also where the generator exhausts exited. I also have a rather poor copy of the POEEJ that shows all this. I'll dig it out and attach a copy.
When I was there is 2000 it was already in a poor state. The lower level was flooded, the stairs led down into the water. There was even a mop in a bucket floating uderwater on the landing - looked quite spooky.
The other thing was there is absoltuly no natural light in there - it really is pitch black! We had a torch and the flash from the camera. There was still some equipment in there, e.g big air filters that you could just about walk inside. I've sent all the details I have onto the Oban museum. I think this is quite a significant part of local history and it is just been left to fall apart - shame.
Glad to hear there is something of a record, and that you've been in touch with Oban too.
The Forum doesn't have any option for file attachment or inclusion (due to space restrictions unfortunately), but if you can attach them to an email to me (link at foot of post) or the Admin, we can add the info to our Wiki page.
ah, that is why I could not find how to attach! I've emailed you with a few pictures.
Hope they are of interest. I knew someone who worked there in the 70's. Even when it was fully operational and all lit up, he told me that the tunnel was still a very spooky place!
I also think that the tunnel was much bigger and deeper underground than many thought. All in all this was a pretty significant installation, a major engineering achievement. It must have cost a major sum of cash to build and the threat of attack sufficient to make the government go for a protected undergound facility rather than an above ground building.
West17 deserves our thanks for the details forwarded - certainly a gold star
I have now seen the pics, and they are excellent, much better than the description suggested.
I'll try and get the page updated soon as, but the better weather is drawing on my spare time just now
(With luck, I'll be playing insomnia tonight, so might not take that long
You'll be impressed, and the follow-up mention of "he tunnel was much bigger and deeper underground than many thought will become much more impressive once out into proper context. I was unprepared for the actuality, even after reading the descriptions already given.
I just ran a batch to size them for the Wiki and tidy them (because they really were just fine), rather than my usual hours of pedantic processing, so you can have a first look here, before I take the time to update the Wiki properly.
As I suggested, having seen various articles on the early transatlantic cable terminals down south, which included photos, most of these were tiny and insubstantial, with only a few decent sized building on what were clearly more important and more substantial facilities, where amplifiers and controls were located, but even these did not look anything like Oban, which was a bit of a surprise when seen 'in the flesh'...
There is also a technical article, which I will add to the Wiki page too.
For those of us more used to dealing in comms signals at the millivolt level, I might mention that this system had a 2.5 kV supply - so no sniffing around for a 'lost signal' with a bit of wire and scope or amp!
Can someone please tell me, in one-line of layman's language, what the " Oban/Ganavan Submarine indicator loops and TAT " is?
TAT-1 was the first Transatlantic telephone cable and landed at Gallanach, it carried the Hot Line so was quite important. Several attempts have been made to get access to the site but the landowner has not allowed anyone in.
The best explanation of the loop site at Ganavan is on Richard Walding's website which was linked earlier. Basically there were two cable across to Mull and Morvern which would indicate if a vessel went over them, the RN crew at the loop station would contact Wrens at the nearby Signal Station and they would check if there were any surface vessels. If not then it could be a submarine.
Have now had a chance to see my pictures since Apollo kindly posted them up. As I seem to have been one of the “privileged” few to visit, I thought it might be helpful for anyone who is interested in this site if I explained what they all show. Apart from pictures 3, 13 and 16, all of these were taken underground.
I’ve termed the tunnel leading from the surface building to the main tunnel as the “access tunnel” and the tunnel from the other entrance as the “service tunnel” The access tunnel arrived at 90 degrees to the main tunnel. The service tunnel is at the opposite end of the main tunnel.
Pic 1) This is part of the air filtration/circulation system at the main tunnel end of the service tunnel. There is a kind of lobby/machinery space here before entering the main tunnel
Pic 2) The “blast” door inside the service tunnel. Note there are no locks or handles on the outside. This could only be operated from inside the tunnel. (the blue objects are old bags of compost – nothing sinister!)
Pic 3) Time zone clocks on the wall inside the surface building.
Pic 4) Towards the end of the access tunnel, through the doors is the main tunnel.
Pic 5) Lobby area at end of service tunnel – through the doors into the main tunnel
Pic 6) About half way along the service tunnel looking towards main tunnel – generator exhausts on the left.
Pic 7) Pump in the service tunnel – believe this was for generator fuel. There were underground diesel tanks outside the service tunnel entrance.
Pic Air handling equipment in same location as Pic 1.
Pic 9) In the lobby, generator exhausts heading downstairs and into the flooded lower level. The stairwell is on the right of the picture. The water was level with the top of the stairs. There are also a set of stairs at the opposite end of the main tunnel.
Pic 10) Just through the blast door into the service tunnel looking towards main tunnel.
Pic 11) Same location as pic 5.
Pic 12) another shot of lobby area/machinery space.
Pic13) The outside of the service access. Inside the red doors there is a sort of foyer area and then the blast door. The generator exhausts exit from the vent on the hillside above. The small structure to the right of the entrance is a filler for underground fuel tanks
Pic 14) In the lobby. Not 100% sure, had bulbs inside – some form of condition/status indicator?
Pic 15) Start of the access tunnel. This is just through the blast door in the access tunnel leading from the surface building and looking towards the main tunnel.
Pic 16) The surface building. At the right is the connection to the access tunnel. Pic 15 was taken just inside the hill, probably in line with the vent on the hillside above.
Pic 17) One upper room of the main tunnel. Through the doors the other room shown in Pic 18. Main tunnel rooms below these are completely full of water.
Pic 1 Other upper room in the main tunnel – believe the engine beds shown played hosts to two AC continuity sets.
Thanks for the extra info regarding the scenes in the pics
I'd certainly say you were indeed 'privileged'
The coding that shows the pics was updated a few weeks ago, but one of the downsides seems to have been the loss of the the captions (it actually should according to the options, but they don't appear), which were shown with the previous version.
The upside is a simpler system though, and a lot of other bug-fixes, which outweighs the missing captions.
It may yet be some trivial bug, but there hasn't been an update, and I haven't seen any obvious flaw - other toys work when I try them, but not the captions. Probably a silly type lurking somewhere.
Doesn't really matter though - Plan B always exists.
There will probably be a gallery added later, which allows each pic to appear with a caption, and be clicked to see the full size version.
I'm still amazed by the place...
It's more like looking at the sort of place the Soviets built at the time, rather than the Britain, let alone in Scotland.
What date are the pics of the minefield control tower? They look recent.
The Forum is our discussion area - the detailed info is stored in the Wiki, as per this page on the tower (assuming you have not tripped over this already ):
So this operated a mine field? Just thought it was a look out for subs or ships sneaking up to Oban during the war.
Pictures taken last year September 2 2010.
There was a controlled minefield in the Sound of Kerrera. There is the infamous story locally that a RN officer took a young lady to show her the controls. It is not quite sure what they were doing, one account says that it was a case of "this switch fires the mines" but there are other versions. Whichever is true the minefield is said to have been detonated.
Presumably the main risk was submarines rather than E-Boats but it is not clear how they detected them. There is no mention of a loop in the Sound of Kerrera though are various anonymous brick buildings so perhaps there was a net.
MB
PS Incidentally I was sent a scan of a few pages from a new book on oil production and supplies in WWII. There is a map showing various oil refineries, pipelines etc, it has Oban marked on it. There are plenty of other ports not marked so I have been wondering why it is shown, I have a nagging memory of reading something somewhere about some imports through Oban during WWII but can't remember details. It obviously could not handle large quantities. Anyone any ideas why it should be included?
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Air handling equipment in same location as Pic 1.
