I had an enquiry about the radar installations on St Kilda from then NTS last year.  I wonder if anyone here can help them?

Quoted Text

>     I am looking for relevant sites to compare with the installation on St Kilda (1957-present) in order to better understand the surviving buildings there and how they fit into the wider military history of post WWII Scotland. Do you have any advice on possible sites, texts and sources? Any thoughts you have would be greatly appreciated.

>
>     The current installation which is still operated by QinetiQ
>     includes two radar stations remote operated from South Uist as
>     well as a diesel power station, barracks and a group of engineer’s
>     garages and sheds. The question I’m interested in is finding other
>     similar installations of the period and or type.
>
>     I could probably dig up more detailed information from the current
>     staff but I’m keen to explore lots of different ways of finding
>     things out!

>

Strange question if it came from the NTS.

The radar works with South Uist, not remotely, as far I'm aware, hence the full staff on St Kilda.

All the history, and their own very detailed St Kilda web site describes a very close relationship with the MoD, and a great deal of data if all the links within it are followed through.

The place has been described as being updated on a number of occasions, so what is there now would only be partially representative of the original period, and anything that is retired is removed and the land restored, so there will be little to find in that respect.

The MoD and the NTS are the only residents since then, and the staff are largely seasonal and may be little help (especially as the NTS just now cut down its seasonal staff! so apart from finding someone who worked on the original install, and I only have one online source with no contact details or response to any approaches I've made, there may be precious little in terms of other sources

I think they were particularly interested in whether any other sites were similar.

I asked various people but they are mainly interested in RAF radar.  I used to know some people who worked there twenty or thirty years ago but lost touch with them.  Historically it is complicated because it has changed ownership a number of times.  I seem to remember there were the three sites involved, they optically tracked at the launch and that helped the radar lock onto the rocket.  From what I was told they often lost it before the radar could take over.  There is an old tower at Clettravel which I was told was associated with this optical system.

I'm tempted to think they would be better hunting down ex-employees of Racal, Decca etc, the companies that would have built, installed and commissioned the original tracking gear.

The MoD would have set the tender criteria for the contract, but it would have been installed by one of those system builders, who would then have trained Army personnel to operate it.

I don't understand what you mean by changed ownership. The RAF built the place, not for themselves, but for the British Army. I've only ever seen St Kilda and South Uist referred to as an Army range. The RAF provides support facilities to it through RAF Benbecula, and RAF Benbecula itself was a Cold War tracking and warning radar site covering the North Atlantic, but was not actually concerned with the missile tracking, although (to steal your phrase) is historically complicated because it did and does provide support facilities for the range, as per the recent £500,000 upgrade at the airfield in readiness for Eurofighter missile testing.

The Cold War operation is gone now, replaced by an RRH (Remote Radar Head), plumbed into the same system as the RRH at RAF Buchan (or near, to be pedantic), all that's left there now that Buchan has been closed and turned into a cosy wee housing development.

There will be nothing interesting left soon!

I'm about try and track down any online info about the South Uist range, but have never come across any references to South Clettraval (which is a busy wee spot with other installations), confusingly located on North Uist just help with consistency, so I'll keep an extra eye out for that one. (Or I will if I can can get some functional computing before I lose the will to live at the moment ).

From memory the staff were originally MOD civilian staff.

I think they became RCA possibly Marconi first then Serco.  It was a few years ago!

More recently I was up at Clettraval quite a number of times but never had anything to do with the MOD site, I think I only ever passed civilian vehicles on the road.

The staff alternated between the three sites.

Yes, unless there is weapons involvement now, staff will be civilian from companies like QinetiQ or SerCo.

MoD civilian staff? Almost sounds like a contradiction, especially in the 1950s and 1960s

I'd forgotten about RCA, that goes back a bit, Marconi doesn't ring a bell on that particular type of kit, more like Ferranti, and tied in with BAe and/or GEC for aircraft radar in my mind, but that's addled at best

As I recall, it all got silly as BAe-GEC-Marconi-Ferranti (and any bits of Racal-Decca and any other players of the same era that were left around)  all but played musical chairs toward the end of the last decade, and all but disappeared up their own backsides. At least EKCO was well out of it by then, or it might have been dragged in as well, just to make up numbers.

The Ferranti labs I used to visit in Edinburgh are gone, and the Ferranti factory which was once a bit of a landmark with its dome is also gone, together with all that was around it.

Quoted from Apollo

Yes, unless there is weapons involvement now, staff will be civilian from companies like QinetiQ or SerCo.

MoD civilian staff? Almost sounds like a contradiction, especially in the 1950s and 1960s

I'd forgotten about RCA, that goes back a bit, Marconi doesn't ring a bell on that particular type of kit, more like Ferranti, and tied in with BAe and/or GEC for aircraft radar in my mind, but that's addled at best

As I recall, it all got silly as BAe-GEC-Marconi-Ferranti (and any bits of Racal-Decca and any other players of the same era that were left around)  all but played musical chairs toward the end of the last decade, and all but disappeared up their own backsides. At least EKCO was well out of it by then, or it might have been dragged in as well, just to make up numbers.

The Ferranti labs I used to visit in Edinburgh are gone, and the Ferranti factory which was once a bit of a landmark with its dome is also gone, together with all that was around it.

Could well have been Ferranti, certainly an oldish British company was there for a time.  They changed name but just carried on in the same jobs and paycheck arriving with a different name on it.

The MOD has always had quite a lot of civilian staff.  Most would have been absorbed into various civilian companies.  I think Serco was perhaps the first to get involved in lots of different unrelated activities.  

Bit addled here also!

Even though it seem I put my foot in my mouth regarding South Clettraval, it does have a smile across it

Almost the first record I opened was the old CND note for South Clettraval, and really, really, should have remembered reading this, as they describe it as "Similar to St Kilda" - now there's a surprise

It's not particularly relevant, it's just that I should just have twigged to it sooner - even if is now over a years since I last had chance to look at the old files

There's not much, but shot in 2000, you get a glimpse of some of the kit in the South Uist range control, and the kitchen units in the background  

From Am Baile

Passing Places - The Real Outer Hebrides. April 2000, South Uist. Rocket Range & swans

HMAV Andalsnes (4097) affectionately known as the old '97 also did the St. Kilda runs.
She was based along side Helensburgh Pier from August 1966 through to October 1966. After October it was considered too rough for the LCT's to do the trips so a trawler took over (who's name escapes me). Some good nights were had in the Imp's, The Clack'n'Arran to name but a couple. There was also a Hotel close by called the Ardencaple which at that time had a very lively folk club.
The skipper on the 97' at the time was Captain Melville, nice guy but prone to sea sickness. The number one was Arnold Crux. The signalman was Bab's Blakelock, the REME guy was Jonny Leadbetter.
The trips took in Stornaway as well as Benbecula and St. Kilda. We signed Capt Melville up for a trip on an Icelandic Trawler in Stornaway but he refused to go.
The LCT's home base was Gunwharf in Pompey, this is now a shopping precinct but the is a plaque telling the story of 20LCT Support Squadron tucked round the corner. When Gunwharf was full (it could only take 2 LCT's we tied up on the buoys out in the South Trot. That could be fun on a cold winters night.
When not up in Scotland the LCT's regular run was to Antwerp to drop off the new Chieftain Tanks for the boy's in Germany. The return trip was with the clapped out Conquers (and a few swiftly written off Chieftains) One trip was a bit rough and we stood still for 22 hours in the middle of the North Sea trying to get home. Mick the cough (the cook) took great delight in serving up greasy pork chops that trip.
A year in the Gulf based at HMS Jufair aboard HMAV Arrezzo followed from June 1967 to July 1968.
Hope it fills in a little info for those interested.
regards an ex 4097 erk

Thanks for sharing.

It's nice to catch some real detail from from those at the sharp end, or blunt end on an LCT - 22 hours stuck in the North Sea going nowhere must have been a nightmare.

And a skipper prone to seasickness

Hi all, newbie here.
Stumbled across the forum whilst I was googling something. Just wanted to let you all know that I spent 3 very happy years attached to 20th Maritime Regiment including the summer of '70 stationed in Scotland at Helensburgh where one of our many tasks was the fortnightly run to St. Kilda. I have a few pictures of my time with the LCT's so if anyone is interested then let me know and I will dig them out.
Cheers.
soldierboy.

Pics would be great for the record if they are available, thank you. It's what we're trying to preserve.

Don't forget, the Forum is just the discussion for the Main Site, with the St Kilda pages such as St Kilda Military Installations

You'll find more for the non-military content, and also the South Uist missile range itself, in the news just now, and which has a page being written at the moment.