Taken in 1956, this scanned slide appears to show that the long section of the Admiralty Pier is missing.


(EDIT  & picture replaced)   This picture from 2009 and also taken fromLyle Hill shows the pier as it is today.

It does not seem likely that it is just awash at a high spring tide as the shorter section is clearly visible.  

Was it damaged in a storm and rebuilt?  This could explain why the link to the shore is of different construction and has now collapsed.

Anyone with Inverclyde connections know the answer?

Now that is something of a surprise.

Might it have come in two parts - the original single part forming the single pier that extends from the stone jetty, and a later modern part, forming the L we see in the later pic?

Could it be a Cold War item, and did not appear (or more correctly was not replaced) until the Polaris boats came to the Holy Loch, since it was primarily used as a 'bus stop' for personnel from the base?

It is possible that the arm wasn't built until the 1960s, I just do not remember.

Have to look out for more 'pics from the archive' then, and watch for the dates in particular.

There was a section of the Greenock Observer (or one of the local papers, I am not familiar with all the titles), and it did have a section that looked at all the old piers around the area, and it did have a selection of pics, plus a para on the history.

You know what I am about to say 'And it was somewhere on the old computer I can't find now'

Quoted from Apollo

Now that is something of a surprise.

Might it have come in two parts - the original single part forming the single pier that extends from the stone jetty, and a later modern part, the T we see in the later pic?

Could it be a Cold War item, and did not appear until the Polaris boats came to the Holy Loch, since it was primarily used as a 'bus stop' for personnel from the base?

There was a protest against the base in 1961.  The protesters were warned that the three piers - Ardnadam, Cardwell and the "naval buildings jetty in Greenock" were all Admiralty property.

On the 1958 OS map the pier is shown in its full L shape so it looks as if it was damaged/demolished and then rebuilt.

I suppose the other option is that it was demolished and replaced because it was structurally weak.

I have been trying to find the Watt Library's index of the Greenock Telegraph,  used to be under favourites before the virus attack.

Here's a very interesting pic of the bay, and we know the date.

But the detail is not good enough to be sure if the craft at the pier are moored around a fixed structure that might be original L, or have simply moored in a connected line at the end of the single pier:

For Remembrance Day | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

But look at the buildings seen on the right

Original Page edited - better picture.

That pic turns up all over the place.   Copyright Geo Simpson of Gourock.   I'd love to know where his archive is now.

I assume you are referring to the two hangers of RAF Greenock.   I would say the pic shows that the pier was L shaped during the war.  The boats at the end must be tied to the pier both fore and aft.

I've corrected my mentions to T-shape, and corrected to say L - which is what we described in the original history dating from the war, which is where we already have a note that this is when it was built.

The T is a bit of an optical illusion, as one of the pier buildings sits on a extension off the L, but I don't think really qualifies for being described as more than that (an extension) and is not really a proper T.

I've rattled the pic and observation into the main page.

Thanks.

This is from around 1980. The pier seems intact here.


Lyle Hill by BM48, on Flickr

And in 2009


Lyle Hill, Greenock by BM48, on Flickr

It must have been rebuilt quite quickly - I don't recall it being missing at all and it was certainly there by the esrly 1960s.  I must have a look through Dad's & my slides to narrow down the date.

My guess would be that the section added for World War II was not up the job by the time the American navy moved into the Holy Loch, and the Admiralty granted it the use of the pier for liberty boats.

It would probably have lain unused and unmaintained since most wartime resources were quickly abandoned if not needed, there being little spare cash around, especially to look after redundant facilities.

I would imagine it was demolished and cleared in fairly short order once the arrival of the Americans was imminent, and either they, or the British would have constructed a new pier section to regulation, since navy personnel were going to be using it.

And that would not have taken either side long once the order was issued and the engineers deployed.

What we maybe really need is someone that was there in the 1960s, and (if my musing are correct) was involved in the build.

Afraid to say that I might have been contacted by a few WWII folk posted to loch and other Scottish piers on them, I've never had any contact with anyone from the Holy Loch period, so I'm out of ideas for this one.

I managed to find the Watt Library newspaper index last night and there are no entries for the pier at  all and the index covers 1800s to 1980s!   I would have thought that if the pier had collapsed in 1956 it would have warranted a mention.  

So...

Maybe my thought of a removal and rebuild just got a little boost

If it had merely collapsed, then I am sure there would have been at least some evidence of the legs to be seen in the pic where the absence of the L-section was noted, and I think it shows the water to be clear of any artefacts.

For comparison, look at the more recent pics that show the stumps still visible from a distance, and left behind the decayed sections of the pier.

Some interesting views of the Admiralty Jetty circa 1966. The dog leg looks longer and the later buildings seem to be missing. Well worth watching just from a local history perspective. I sailed from this jetty many times. First time to visit USS Wasp which was anchored off shore and were hosting an open day. The queue was a mile long but well worth the wait. Years later I used to get passes for the liberty boats (converted WW2 landing craft) we had friends on the USS Holland . We used to sail from the jetty to the pier in the Holy Loch. Great Days many fond memories.

Thanks for the note and observation about the variation in size of the pier over the years.

Now that we know there is something of an interesting history behind this structure and its appearance, it would be nice to find something that perhaps documented it, maybe a specialist 'little book' about the area is floating around somewhere.

Somewhere like one of the museums that covers the area of Inverclyde probably has a photo album complete with dated pics that would show the changes, but that would need someone who is reasonably handy for dropping in to make the visit and ask the staff.

I used to take this up for items like that this that were raised in the Forum in the past, but sad to say, as I had to conduct these enquiries by email, even though they started out quite well, after a few I found that far from building up a rapport with the museum staff I contacted, they soon lost patience and stopped responding to enquiries after a while.

Sadly, having been in touch with a few other folk who maintain web sites that look into local items of interest such as this, this is not as rare as one might hope it would be.

Their experience - and which they warned me of early on - was of finding that many museums guard their records, and while they are happy to stand with open arms and welcome donations (of material rather than money), when the situation is reversed, they do not take long to pull up the drawbridge if someone begins to make too many withdrawals.

I didn't believe them, but over the years have found that a number of sources simply stopped responding when I made enquiries, but did reply of I used a false identity.

I could make a fuss - but where would it get me?

Anyway...

Inspired by that video, I had a very brief hunt around to see if there might be any more on offer, but as far as I could see, there were no 'vintage' clips, and all the video I came up with was modern, from the last few years, so it looks as if there is little more to be had  - but then again, something may appear later, or be filed away under a name that does not specifically mention the pier.

Hi Apollo & Everyone,
Visited the McLean Museum library with around ten queries about notable signal city sites a few years ago(I appreciate that The cardwell bay jetty post dates WW2 or rather the subject matter perhaps refers to the fifties and sixties)  the only results were the few 40s 50s references from the Greenock Telegraph. I suspect that a great deal of the history of 40s 50s & sixties military history of this area exists but is contained and classified or retained in various Departments with very difficult access.